Can you name any FWD sports cars?

[OrangeJuleas]

After reading a good deal of the pages here, I'm starting to get a little confused.

What is the real life difference between a cheap "sports car" and a well built "sporty car"? How does classification affect anything?

I mean, a lot of people here are using the literal definition of "sports car" to describe it, but often forget that the definition of "sport" (according to Oxford for all the wiki-haters out there) is:

"An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

(http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us..._english/sport)

I'm fairly certain that a car doesn't need to be RWD/AWD/FWD to be entertaining or competitive. As I've said before, sports car is a dying classification. Way back when cars served a single purpose, there was more definition. You were either super lightweight and streamlined with no creature comforts (sports car, roughly) or were heavy, probably slow and comfortable (family sedan or coupe). Even the highest end sports cars today are comfortable and have many options that they couldn't meet the most stringent definition of sports car.

The real question here is: Are there even any sports cars anymore? Were talking about dedicated, sporting-defined vehicles. Everything listed here can easily be defined as a daily driver, and thus not meeting the definition of mass produced purpose built "sports car".

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

After reading a good deal of the pages here, I'm starting to get a little confused.

What is the real life difference between a cheap "sports car" and a well built "sporty car"? How does classification affect anything?

I mean, a lot of people here are using the literal definition of "sports car" to describe it, but often forget that the definition of "sport" (according to Oxford for all the wiki-haters out there) is:

"An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

(http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us..._english/sport)

I'm fairly certain that a car doesn't need to be RWD/AWD/FWD to be entertaining or competitive. As I've said before, sports car is a dying classification. Way back when cars served a single purpose, there was more definition. You were either super lightweight and streamlined with no creature comforts (sports car, roughly) or were heavy, probably slow and comfortable (family sedan or coupe). Even the highest end sports cars today are comfortable and have many options that they couldn't meet the most stringent definition of sports car.

The real question here is: Are there even any sports cars anymore? Were talking about dedicated, sporting-defined vehicles. Everything listed here can easily be defined as a daily driver, and thus not meeting the definition of mass produced purpose built "sports car".

YOU GET OUTTA HERE WITH ALL THAT HIPPY TALK!

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

YOU GET OUTTA HERE WITH ALL THAT HIPPY TALK!

****, I've really done it now haven't I?

[gymratter]

who cares anymore.

buy whatever makes you happy people.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

The real question here is: Are there even any sports cars anymore? Were talking about dedicated, sporting-defined vehicles. Everything listed here can easily be defined as a daily driver, and thus not meeting the definition of mass produced purpose built "sports car".

Why wouldn't a Miata be classified as a sports car?
Lotus?
Caterham?
Boxster?
Cayman?

[Grateful Dave]

FWD cars are sporty cars not sports cars.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by stugray

You should not dismiss the question since it IS relevant.

Since my definition implies that a sports car is designed from the beginning for performance, then give me an example of a car that was designed with performance as the #1 goal that is also FWD.
You cant.

And IF FWD could even hold a candle to RWD as it applies to performance, then wouldnt F1 have at least tested a FWD car?
They dont need to because they already know how to make a car go fast around a track, and it has nothing to do with FWD.

The key concept is this annoying thing called "Physics" and how weight is transfered towards the rear under acceleration.
If we could just reverse that pesky force vector, then the front of the car would have more force on the wheels under acceleration.

It is kind of hard to maintain traction on the front under 3 Gs of acceleration (unless you want to go backwards)

uhhh, so by your definition the twins are definitely NOT sports cars, since they were precisely designed to sacrifice performance for "fun-factor" and have relatively sad lap times (not to mention 2 extra seats). They aren't even that competitive in solo2 where their lightweight should be an advantage.

In fact what sports cars are there in the world for you then? F1 cars? formula SAE? radical sr8 lm? the spectrum from karting->formula 3? Is that it? I mean no production car is produced from the ground up for only performance. They all have things like roofs, wheel arches, windows, headlights, passenger seats...

actually, maybe the gtr since its ultimate design goal was to beat a 911 turbo on the nurburgring. But you see the designer went with a front-midship 4wd...

There is this annoying thing called "weight" that you add to get hp to the wheels farther away. In many race groups with low hp, the extra weight to get the power to the rear wheels just isn't worth it. So given those restrictions, fwd cars are more competitive.

I don't get it. are there fwd that are fun to drive? yes. Are there fwd cars that are fast on the track? yes. are there fwd cars in professional race groups that win races against rwd cars? yes. So....?

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Why wouldn't a Miata be classified as a sports car?
Lotus?
Caterham?
Boxster?
Cayman?

so some of the people who believe that ff cars can never be sports cars have to define sports cars in such a narrow way it brings miatas, lotus, and caterhams status of being a sports car into question.

basically, you have to define a sports car as only rwd cars irregardless of performance. to say that the twins are sports cars and say a mugen civic rr isn't.

[juliog]

So many European and Japanese FWD hot hatches I would take over american RWD muscle any day.

[Sideways&Smiling]

FWD cars are wrong and bad.

</thread>

[paulca]

Some "family cars" will, I'm certain be accepted into Sport Car heaven.

The MkII Ford Escort for one. And who said rallying was about FWD and AWD?
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4ewUtmCQdE"]Irish Rally sideways PURE SOUND - YouTube[/ame]

PS: I drive down these kind of roads every day, in a GT86.

[paulca]

... and if you are going to make a hot hatch, do it properly.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjcbCUaonuI"]Richard Hammond's Clio V6 review (2000) - YouTube[/ame]

[n2oinferno]

So while everyone is going to have their opinion of what is and isn't a sports car, based on the numerous comments, questions, and praise I've gotten in the past three months, the general public thinks my Abarth is a sports car. And the definitions of things generally change based on what common thought is. See the dictionary definition of "literally."

So :P.

[paulca]

Abarth what?

[CoupedUpSubie]

Originally Posted by paulca

Some "family cars" will, I'm certain be accepted into Sport Car heaven.

The MkII Ford Escort for one. And who said rallying was about FWD and AWD?

PS: I drive down these kind of roads every day, in a GT86.

I said that most cars being used in rally are AWD and FWD, more so just AWD now. RWD is the hardest setup to save in a unexpected slide where AWD and FWD tend to be forgiving. In the video you posted you can take notice that the majority of FWD or AWD cars that screwed up a corner didn't loose much time, however the RWD cars ended up looping around and loosing multiple seconds. There is a reason why Ford, Puegot, Citroen, Toyota, Volkswagen and such don't use their RWD cars for rally. I do know of one US based BRZ that is built for rally, I should be seeing that in person in a bit over a month.

I drive roads like that also, we aren't all city folk in the US.

Originally Posted by paulca

Abarth what?

He has a Fiat 500 Abarth, only car to my knowledge with the Abarth name on it in the US.