Lotus Type 131 Rumors

[Irace86.2.0]

Can we start the Lotus rumors?

https://www.evo.co.uk/lotus/203463/l...-for-this-year

Lotus has confirmed that its first all-new sports car in over a decade will commence production this year in its renovated Norfolk base. The new model, currently tagged Type 131, is due to be revealed this summer, signifying the beginning of Lotus’s new era as part of the Geely group. This news comes hot on the heels of Lotus’s confirmation it will also partner with Alpine in the development of a new all-electric sports car.

The Type 131, meanwhile, has been described as ‘the most accomplished Lotus we have ever built’ according to Lotus CEO Phil Popham. When it is shown off in final production form, it will be given a new name (starting with an E but not followed by the letters S, P, R, I and T). It will sit on an aluminium platform and be powered by a new family of engines – not Lotus developed, but not related to the current Toyota units either – that will be available in more than one state of tune.

Lotus is remaining tight-lipped on the specifics of the car, but we did manage to extract a number of details from those involved in the project. In terms of where the 131 sits, expect it to be towards the upper echelons of the current line-up, with a price tag that spans the existing top models – the current Exige and Evora ranges start from £59,000 and £82,000 respectively, and climb to £103,000 for an Exige Cup 430 – with a number of body style and trim derivatives to be offered. While it won’t cost McLaren money, our understanding is that Lotus’s new car will have a pricing structure similar to Porsche’s 911 (a Carrera starts at £82,000).

In terms of those body styles, a coupe is a given, with a roadster also set to be offered, although whether this will feature a lift-out targa-style panel as utilised by current Lotus roadsters or a more conventional folding roof, we’ll have to wait and see.

The Type 131’s exterior design is best described as a ‘baby Evija’, with some familiar Lotus overtones from the current line-up. This new car is required to have a broader appeal, though, as Lotus seeks to grow the variety of its customer base, so expect a more elegant design from Russell Carr and his team. Likewise the interior, which while retaining the Lotus DNA of putting the driver first, will have a design, ergonomics and materials more closely aligned with the style and innovation of the aforementioned electric hypercar than today’s more pared-back models.

When it comes to what kind of Lotus the Type 131 is, it will straddle the end of the current Lotus era and the beginning of the next, led by the Evija. With the Type 131 set to complete a full production cycle, the final models are scheduled to be available up to 2030, legislation permitting.

Not knowing what the legislators will blurt out next could mean the Type 131 is the last internal combustion engined Lotus. Or not. With both full EVs and hybrids also on the Lotus product plan, Popham is preparing for every eventuality, a security that has only been possible since Geely took control of the company in 2017.

Under Phil Popham’s leadership and with Geely’s backing, Lotus has steered a steady path through the Covid storm. Continued investment from its Chinese owners has allowed the firm to quietly go about its business, with any visit to Hethel providing a physical reminder of the work being carried out. The Evija assembly hall was handed over to those responsible for fitting it out at the beginning of the year, a new production hall for the Type 131 is nearing completion, and the existing halls are also in the process of being thoroughly overhauled.

Away from the Hethel site there is a new technology centre at the University of Warwick, which joins a new sub-assembly facility in Norwich. These alone will add 250 people to the Lotus payroll, with another 250 new employees required for Type 131 production in 2021, lifting Lotus’s headcount to 2000.

In terms of Type 131 production numbers, Hethel’s capacity is in the region of 8000 units per year (a number it hasn’t reached since the days of the VX220, Elise and Exige being simultaneously produced), and while the new car won’t account for all that capacity, Lotus is confident it will be responsible for the lion’s share, with the Elise, Exige and Evora adding to it as they are replaced over the coming years. And while Geely is willing to invest in Popham and his team’s strategy, each model has to pay for itself and make a contribution to the bottom line. For the first time in decades the Type 131 could be the Lotus to do just that.

[Irace86.2.0]

I think Lotus should undercut Porsche. Let's be real. Lotus doesn't have the build quality of a Porsche, the design quality of the Porsche or the technology of the Porsche, so it needs to undercut them or rise up to their level. Unfortunately, it is hard to rise to their level because Porsche is Porsche, and Lotus has always had the ethos of less is more. The 992 is packed with technology like crazy packed, and I just don't see how anyone buys an Evora when they could own a 992 for the same or similar price. Like I get the Lotus difference, and even the Evora is lighter, but it just seems like the value of keeping things simple should also be felt in a reduced price. Like Porsche does this too; they remove luxuries and items from the car and then charge more for it like removing sound deadening or door cards in favor of pull straps, but for the Lotus, I feel like there should be some savings because this is their standard and not some special edition like the Porsche.

With that said, the Exige would be the car to own for me, but we don't have it or the Elise in the states; all we get is the fat Evora, so I am excited to read that Lotus is replacing all the models, and it seems that all of their new models will be in the states.

The question is where is Lotus sourcing their engines if not from Toyota. Geely Automotive owns Lotus with other subsidiaries like Polstar/Volvo, so I don't know if this will be a Geely motor or a Volvo motor or what.

If Lotus can produce a Cayman alternative that is 2200lbs (Miata weight) then I would definitely consider it, but at 911 money, I would just buy a 911, if I could afford one. I'm not interested in anything that is north of 3000lbs from Lotus.

[Irace86.2.0]

The other thing to note is Lotus is working with Alpine on a future electric sports car. My guess is this will probably undercut the Tesla Roadster 2 in terms of range and straight-line performance, but knowing both companies, it may be much lighter and more of a driver's car--if someone can even say that with an EV. We will have to see how that goes, but it isn't slatted for release until sometime around 2025.

The Evija is a $2 million 2000hp halo car that was made to showcase their future design language and to showcase their ability to progress to EVs.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38723/...ric-sports-car

[Red-86]

I just hope they keep a really lightweight, *relatively* affordable entry level model. The Elise in particular offers something unique, an ultra light, back to basics MR sportscar that undercuts the other options in the market. I hope Lotus are not simply moving the whole range upmarket. As others noted, their build quality and refinement can’t match Porsche, so they should focus on making the best and most affordable track cars they can. Leave the luxury, prestige GT car thing to Porsche.

[Captain Snooze]

A little perspective:


" Lotus sales were up 4.4 per cent in 2020, to 1,378 units. Porsche sold 1,063 718 Caymans and Boxster last July alone. In Europe."

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

A little perspective:


" Lotus sales were up 4.4 per cent in 2020, to 1,378 units. Porsche sold 1,063 718 Caymans and Boxster last July alone. In Europe."

The problem with Lotus is that they now have a second sub-$100k mid-engine sports car in the US to compete with--the Corvette C8. For $60k, someone can get a dual-clutch, mid-engine V8 with impressive performance and value, and not only that, but the Corvette line has offered dry-sump engines like the 911 and other track focused technology that makes Lotus cars seem thin for the price.

The Evora seemed underwhelming for the value, but now that just got worse, so if they want to compete then they need to market the car closure to the C8 or even cheaper, offering something with slightly less weight than the C8 with a better focus on handling dynamics, or they need to raise the quality above the C8, while undercutting the 911's price. Again, I don't think they can compete with Porsche head-to-head in terms of technology and build quality. Their hand to play is lightweight, analog and more driver focused in a way that makes the car more thrilling and engaging to drive. That is no small measure.

The Lotus brand has a reputation of prestige, track and driver focused cars, and performance, but I think they need to take a strong look at their brand and see where it fits in today's market. I think of Lotus as a more boutique manufacture of track cars that can go on the road, more akin to the Ariel Atom than any Porsche. I think they should continue that by offering something no one else is offering: a line of cars from 2000-3000lbs that are great driver's cars. They don't need to try to be the most powerful or the fastest.

[weederr33]

I just want the Elise to come back. They've been buddies with Toyota for so long, let them throw the 1.6 GR motor in an updated Elise!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I just want the Elise to come back. They've been buddies with Toyota for so long, let them throw the 1.6 GR motor in an updated Elise!

I would be down to see this if the price was right. Depending on the weight, the amount of aluminum and carbon fiber, I would want the cost to be far under the Cayman and C8. I just don't think it will happen. The entry level Elise in the UK costs $56k, but I think the price needs to be closer to $45-50k to be a reasonable proposition for buyers. At $56k, that is $4k away from a C8 with a big V8 or a luxury Porsche. For $50k someone could get into a Supra with a faster 0-60, decent power potential, active diff, active suspension, etc and probably better build quality and more luxury features.

The problem is that Lotus doesn't have the volume to keep the price as low as their competitors. I don't know if Lotus will take some inspiration from Porsche's playbook and come out with a crossover to boost sales. I just don't see that working out the same as it has for Porsche. I could be mistaken.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/37573/...debuts-in-2022

Alfa Romeo is a much more established brand with a history of making cars in house, so they have the means of producing a good and competitive car from the ground up more than Lotus. Their 4C wasn't exactly a hit. At $67k, it is a little too far up market in price to compete with competitors, which is why it only sold 144 units in a year. Yes, it has a carbon fiber chassis, which isn't cheap, but I think it needed to have a larger motor or less weight or both and at a cheaper price to really be competitive.

https://www.motor1.com/news/391405/a...sa-2019-sales/

I'm eager to see what Lotus has up its sleeves, but I fear it may be too little or miss the mark, yet I am rooting for their success. Enthusiasts need cars like the Lotus more than ever. I would be down to see the GR Yaris engine in the next Elise, if the price was right.

[serialk11r]

Correction: The Evora is not lighter than a Porsche, if you use the correct comparison (Cayman).

Chris Harris remarked about the Jag F type and AM V8V "British aluminium must be lead". Porsches have properly designed chassis that are light despite being all steel, while Lotus doesn't have enough R&D budget, so they use aluminum and carbon fiber and pray for lightness. The fiberglass clams are IIRC extremely heavy, which is why switching them to carbon fiber for a large sum of money finally got the weight down, but it's still in the ballpark of a Cayman S.

Likewise, Lotus couldn't afford wind tunnel time, so they end up with a 50% higher drag coefficient and meager downforce despite having a full underbody tray.

This Type 131 needs to knock it out of the park if they want to charge Porsche money. I hope they do, but it's going to be tough.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Correction: The Evora is not lighter than a Porsche, if you use the correct comparison (Cayman).

Chris Harris remarked about the Jag F type and AM V8V "British aluminium must be lead". Porsches have properly designed chassis that are light despite being all steel, while Lotus doesn't have enough R&D budget, so they use aluminum and carbon fiber and pray for lightness. The fiberglass clams are IIRC extremely heavy, which is why switching them to carbon fiber for a large sum of money finally got the weight down, but it's still in the ballpark of a Cayman S.

Likewise, Lotus couldn't afford wind tunnel time, so they end up with a 50% higher drag coefficient and meager downforce despite having a full underbody tray.

This Type 131 needs to knock it out of the park if they want to charge Porsche money. I hope they do, but it's going to be tough.

I don’t know why you are comparing the Evora to a Cayman. The Evora starts at $97k. It is a supercharged 6 cylinder. It is 2+2. The 992 starts at $99k and is a 2+2 with a turbocharged 6 cylinder. The Cayman starts at $60k, is a two seater and has a turbocharged 4 cylinder. The Cayman is closer to the Elise in price and specs. It is even possible to spec an Evora lighter than a Cayman. The Evora GT430 only weighed 2,773lbs with carbonfiber bits and a titanium exhaust. It is still fat compared to the Elise and Exige. The Exige has the same motor as the Evora, but on a two seater chassis more akin to the Elise, but stretched, so the $140k Exige 430 Cup is just 2,328 pounds, but it doesn’t have the “refinements and amenities” as the Evora. Again, the Elise and Cayman are much closer in price and specs and are positioned as entry sports cars for either brand. Even if the Evora is lighter than a 992 or similar to a Cayman, it is fat for a Lotus.