new to HPDE, need advice about ABS

[hepmama]

I’m brand new to HPDE, just did my second weekend of it. I’ll be going back in December.

This time my instructor said that my ABS was kicking in quite a bit. He said to see if there is a way to adjust it to be less sensitive but not turn it off yet.

Does Track Mode do this? This is what the manual says about it:

When the switch is pressed and held for 1 second or more, “TRACK” mode is activated. Control characteristics such as the Vehicle stability control (VSC) and TRAC are adjusted to afford maneuverability closer to what a driver may desire, while a sense of security is retained.

It doesn’t explain what it’s changing but do you think this would accomplish what I need?

[M0nk3y]

ABS intrusion is a fixed amount.

More information is needed, type of brake pads, alignment, tires, etc all can cause ABS to act differently.

[hepmama]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

ABS intrusion is a fixed amount.

More information is needed, type of brake pads, alignment, tires, etc all can cause ABS to act differently.

This is still the stock 2019 BRZ with performance package. Only thing I've done is get the high performance brake fluid.

Tires are the Michelin Primacy HP's that came with it. I did adjust my tire pressure based on my instructor's advice during the event.

Brake pads are still the originals that came with it (Brembos) but my instructor advised me to have them checked out due to ABS coming on so much.

Nothing has been done to the alignment.

I have no idea what brake pads or tires to get when I need to replace them.

This is my daily driver so I basically want to drive it ON the track, the way I drove it TO the track. I won't be the person putting on special tires or brake pads for the track. At least not at this point!

Thank you for responding.

[CrowsFeast]

I've never known any cars to have adjustable ABS (though I suppose it's possible). Are you sure he was talking about the ABS rather than stability control? If he was talking about stability control (seems more likely to me) then yes track mode/long hold will reduce the intrusion without getting rid of it entirely (pedal dance). It will allow a lot more slip angle before it jumps in to try and save you.

[hepmama]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

I've never known any cars to have adjustable ABS (though I suppose it's possible). Are you sure he was talking about the ABS rather than stability control? If he was talking about stability control (seems more likely to me) then yes track mode/long hold will reduce the intrusion without getting rid of it entirely (pedal dance). It will allow a lot more slip angle before it jumps in to try and save you.

Thank you for the reply!

Well, he kept talking about my ABS and never mentioned stability control. I don't know if he was feeling ABS coming on or stability control. He said it was a chirping. I may have felt something near the end of my hard straight line braking but I am not sure what he was feeling/hearing or referring to. I am not sure what ABS and traction control would feel like. He drives Miatas so is probably not familiar with track mode on this car, either.

Would some kind of data logger record if ABS and/or traction control were coming on? I honestly am not looking at my dashboard while driving. Maybe if I had video plus the data about it coming on, I could figure it out easier.

So long hold, not the short 1 second? My manual seems to imply the long hold will turn it off? Here's what it says:

[ZDan]

Your instructor is probably talking about VSC or EBD activity.

Are you using "Track Mode"? That will tone it down a bit, but ultimately when you get enough experience to feel comfortable with less nannies you're going to need to do the 5-second hold on TC Off button. On '17+ cars that's enough, turns off all nannies except ABS, you don't need to "pedal dance".

While we're talking about it, if you *ever* see the VSC warning light and/or ABS light at the track, be *SUPER* easy on brakes at next brake zone and bring it in.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142525

[hepmama]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Your instructor is probably talking about VSC or EBD activity.

Are you using "Track Mode"? That will tone it down a bit, but ultimately when you get enough experience to feel comfortable with less nannies you're going to need to do the 5-second hold on TC Off button. On '17+ cars that's enough, turns off all nannies except ABS, you don't need to "pedal dance".

While we're talking about it, if you *ever* see the VSC warning light and/or ABS light at the track, be *SUPER* easy on brakes at next brake zone and bring it in.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142525

I did not use Track Mode but I am wondering if that's I should try next time as an in-between but not having the nannies fully off.

VSC Warning Light - whoa, that sounds scary! I will have to pay more attention to the dashboard. Right now I feel so overloaded just getting around the track that I haven't looked down much at all.

Thank you for the info!

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by hepmama

I did not use Track Mode but I am wondering if that's I should try next time as an in-between but not having the nannies fully off.

Highly recommend this! Ultimately you'll get to the point where the nannies that remain active will bother you with their intrusions and then you can do the 3-5-second hold on the TC Off button.

VSC Warning Light - whoa, that sounds scary! I will have to pay more attention to the dashboard. Right now I feel so overloaded just getting around the track that I haven't looked down much at all.

It's pretty unlikely to happen. But yeah, as you get more comfortable at the track you should make it one of your "gauge checks".

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

I've never known any cars to have adjustable ABS (though I suppose it's possible). Are you sure he was talking about the ABS rather than stability control? If he was talking about stability control (seems more likely to me) then yes track mode/long hold will reduce the intrusion without getting rid of it entirely (pedal dance). It will allow a lot more slip angle before it jumps in to try and save you.

Racecars with motorsport ABS can adjust ABS. Street cars, I don't think I've ever seen adjustable ABS, outside of Ferraris.

[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Racecars with motorsport ABS can adjust ABS. Street cars, I don't think I've ever seen adjustable ABS, outside of Ferraris.

Ya I was referring to street cars. Not surprised that some hyper cars might have the adjustability; just never heard it mentioned.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Your instructor is probably talking about VSC or EBD activity.

Are you using "Track Mode"? That will tone it down a bit, but ultimately when you get enough experience to feel comfortable with less nannies you're going to need to do the 5-second hold on TC Off button. On '17+ cars that's enough, turns off all nannies except ABS, you don't need to "pedal dance".

While we're talking about it, if you *ever* see the VSC warning light and/or ABS light at the track, be *SUPER* easy on brakes at next brake zone and bring it in.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142525

I was unaware that the long hold was significantly different on '17+. Thank you for the clarification.

[strat61caster]

You will feel ABS working while you're pressing the brake pedal, the pedal will pulse. It's hard to not notice it or mistake it for something else.

Tonight go find a safe, clear, empty road, get up to 30+ mph and then try to break your brake pedal so you can feel the abs working. Do a real panic stop, it's an important learning lesson for every single driver on the road to understand how to stop their car as quickly as possible.

It's not clear, were you driving with traction control? Your instructor may be feeling the traction control kick in which does feel slightly like ABS as it applies the brakes to prevent the car from sliding. Older instructors may not be hip with the latest tech from the '80s. (which means I agree with above, instructor was feeling the vsc/tcs/whatever you want to call it)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Your instructor is probably talking about VSC or EBD activity.

Are you using "Track Mode"? That will tone it down a bit, but ultimately when you get enough experience to feel comfortable with less nannies you're going to need to do the 5-second hold on TC Off button. On '17+ cars that's enough, turns off all nannies except ABS, you don't need to "pedal dance".

I though EBD was still active on the new cars with the 5s press?

I mean, it's a good thing imho, helps trail brake way more effectively without risking a lockup or dropping the brake pressure to near useless levels to prevent locking up. Pedal dance still effective for people who prefer single channel non-EBD ABS action.

[86league]

Originally Posted by ZDan

do the 5-second hold on TC Off button. On '17+ cars that's enough, turns off all nannies except ABS, you don't need to "pedal dance".

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I though EBD was still active on the new cars with the 5s press?

Gents : After stepping up to a 2020 from a 2013, I've only had the 2020 on track a few times now. I have just done the pedal dance every time (except one), which is more habit perhaps than necessity since I absolutely had to use pedal dance to drive the 2013 at more than "pedestrian pace" on track.

The one time I forgot to do pedal dance the system stepped in on the out-lap and I thought "Oh crap... I forgot to pedal dance." I pushed and held the button for a while, and my memory tells me I got the TRAC OFF, and VSC OFF indicators (as I was used to for pedal dance). But I sort of doubt that outcome given what the manual says (should only occur if the vehicle is stopped). To be honest I didn't pay that much attention, I just wanted to get back to hot pit to do pedal dance to be able to drive the session. Whatever mode I was in did allow me to move at a reasonable pace on the out lap back to the hot pit. Way way better than my 2013 would have allowed even with a long press while stopped. I wonder what mode I was actually in now...

Pressing the button for 1+ sec should give you TRACK mode when moving, but the 3+ sec VSC+TRAC off are not avail when moving? (that's what the manual seems to indicate).

@ZDan - you say 5+ sec. The manual says 1+ sec = track, 3+ sec = VSC/TRAC off. Is there a 3rd mode at 5+ sec?

Maybe I need to try that - I've just been doing what I did on the 2013...

Thanks.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You will feel ABS working while you're pressing the brake pedal, the pedal will pulse. It's hard to not notice it or mistake it for something else.

This may be lack of sensitivity on my part, but honestly I never ever noticed pulsing or anything with the ABS on my car at the track. In fact now that I'm running with the ABS fuse pulled and getting front lockups semi-regularly, I'm *sure* the car musta been ABSing quite a lot previously! Maybe '17+ ABS is smoother and less noticeable?

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I though EBD was still active on the new cars with the 5s press?
I mean, it's a good thing imho, helps trail brake way more effectively without risking a lockup or dropping the brake pressure to near useless levels to prevent locking up. Pedal dance still effective for people who prefer single channel non-EBD ABS action.

If EBD is active with the 3-5-sec hold on the TC Off button, it's unobtrusive to the point that I don't notice it. I have tried both back-to-back and damn if I could tell any meaningful difference in feel at turn-in with trailbraking, or lap times. 5-sec hold is easier so just stuck with that