follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Off-Topic Discussions > Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions

Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions Discuss all other cars and automotive news here.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-18-2020, 08:58 PM   #43
wbradley
Sarcastic SOB
 
wbradley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S M6, '18 STI Sport
Location: Thornhill Ontario
Posts: 3,630
Thanks: 610
Thanked 1,896 Times in 1,129 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Garage
The pricing on the next gen Mirai shows that the fuel cell tech is slowly becoming less expensive. Unlike hybrids, the cost reduction could not be attributed to volume at this point.
Environmentally, less battery is better. The only question is whether the fuel cell will be reusable at end of life for the vehicle or not. That would be a big plus if the cell was essentially a removable/reusable appliance.
I had read a few years ago that researchers in South Korea had built a fuel cell that was catalyzed with carbon tubules. The cost was expected to be far less than using precious metals. Not sure if this or other revisions have reduced the fuel cell cost.
Provided hydrogen continues to prove itself safe to store in a vehicle, fuel cell tech makes a lot of sense when range and refuelling times are important.
Tesla has the lead in premium green vehicles, but I see great potential for the Mirai. The metals used in hybrid batteries could become more costly and scarcer over time. Fuel cells, afaik dont lose their power output ability in a few year like batteries.
Not knowing the lifespan of a typical fuel cell system, everything else is very compelling and it seems like the infrastructure for hydrogen production could easily be incorporated to many existing refuelling facilities.
__________________
5:AD kit, HKS V1+ S/C, ECUtek dyno'd, Ohlins MP20, Magnaflow cb, Revworks UEL, Topspeed overpipe, Pinnacle Ceramic tint, VG shark fin, HID's, yellow DRL's, full LEDs, red floor lights, Homelink mirror, trunk lid liner, Perrin LWCP, Valenti smoked, Flossy Grip Tape Shorty, GT86 plaque, lighted vanity mirror, Michelin PSS, Project mU +800, DOT4 fluid, 720 Form GTF1 17x8&9, stitched leather bits, EZ valve.
wbradley is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wbradley For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (12-18-2020), Spuds (12-18-2020)
Old 12-18-2020, 09:50 PM   #44
Spuds
The Dictater
 
Spuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: '13 Red Scion FRS
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 5,649
Thanks: 15,311
Thanked 6,543 Times in 3,461 Posts
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
This is true for full charging, but this isnít the typical behavior of most people who use Superchargers. Like Dadhawk said, the advantage goes to the EVs because people can charge at home. The average person drives 30 miles or less a day, which is within the means of recharging each night on a 120v system. If people use the 240v, 48amp Tesla wall charger then they can do a full charge overnight.

Most people using Superchargers arenít needing a full charge from a depleted battery, nor are they fully charging the car. Maybe they have 15 minutes to kill, so they charge half a charge. And of course, it is getting faster and faster to charge these cars, but hydrogen charging is fixed.

Meanwhile, home charging is plentiful, Supercharging stations are plentiful, Superchargers at the Supercharging stations are plentiful. 3rd party fast chargers and slower destination chargers are even more plentiful. They are cheap to install, relatively speaking. Many cities are integrating chargers into malls and business parking structures. In short, the difference is stark.

San Diego has one hydrogen fuel station. How many gas stations? We have more gas stations in Sonoma County and maybe within a 15 mile radius than all hydrogen fuel stations in California. Currently it is estimated that California has 10,266 public fuel stations, so hydrogen has far to go. Meanwhile, there are over 16,320 Superchargers in California, many other fast chargers and over 50k level 2 chargers, not counting home chargers.

The other thing is hydrogen fuel stations are more expensive than charging stations, and they are investing more in charging than hydrogen. Itíll be good to have both, but it is clear hydrogen is in a huge deficit.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gre...infrastructure
If the average person drives 30 miles a day, then a 312 mile range Mirai would have to spend 5 minutes fueling once every 10 days.
Less if you consider that it has a small battery pack that could also be charged directly.

You know, that's exactly what I want to be doing with my spare time. Finding a charging station to add a few miles to my range. . Also, hydrogen fill time isn't a huge concern, but I'm sure if there were any incentive someone could invent a faster pump.

Supercharging stations are plentiful because Musk threw other people's money at it for the last decade. Tesla is a furnace into which people feed dollar bills. If Hydrogen had that kind of enthusiasm we would probably all be driving hydrogen cars by now.

But is a hydrogen fueling station more expensive than 18+ supercharger stations (assuming the same number of plugs as pumps)? To match the capacity of fueling stations you do have, many of which are in places you don't go to spend an hour waiting to move on, you need more than 180,000 charging stations if they all had the same amount of superchargers as pumps at the gas stations. You would need over a million level 2(?) charging stations. Now, do you really need the capacity you actually have, no, but if you really want to compare capacity against fueling stations as a metric, those are the numbers you are looking at.

Cost of a supercharger station from wikipedia:
Quote:
Cost estimates per station range from US$100,000 in 2013[42] to US$270,000 in 2015, depending on the number of stalls and other circumstances.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger

Cost of a 4-pump hydrogen station from dadhawk's article:
Quote:
Stephens said each of the three new True Zero stations will cost about $700,000 to $800,000 to construct and hopes to have them ready for customers by the end of next year or early 2022.
My phone is dying, hopefully I got to everything. Please wait while I find a charger...
Spuds is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Spuds For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (12-18-2020)
Old 12-19-2020, 01:35 AM   #45
Irace86.2.0
Non Sequitur
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 4,502
Thanks: 3,420
Thanked 3,391 Times in 1,936 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
If the average person drives 30 miles a day, then a 312 mile range Mirai would have to spend 5 minutes fueling once every 10 days.
Less if you consider that it has a small battery pack that could also be charged directly.

You know, that's exactly what I want to be doing with my spare time. Finding a charging station to add a few miles to my range. . Also, hydrogen fill time isn't a huge concern, but I'm sure if there were any incentive someone could invent a faster pump.

Supercharging stations are plentiful because Musk threw other people's money at it for the last decade. Tesla is a furnace into which people feed dollar bills. If Hydrogen had that kind of enthusiasm we would probably all be driving hydrogen cars by now.

But is a hydrogen fueling station more expensive than 18+ supercharger stations (assuming the same number of plugs as pumps)? To match the capacity of fueling stations you do have, many of which are in places you don't go to spend an hour waiting to move on, you need more than 180,000 charging stations if they all had the same amount of superchargers as pumps at the gas stations. You would need over a million level 2(?) charging stations. Now, do you really need the capacity you actually have, no, but if you really want to compare capacity against fueling stations as a metric, those are the numbers you are looking at.

Cost of a supercharger station from wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger

Cost of a 4-pump hydrogen station from dadhawk's article:


My phone is dying, hopefully I got to everything. Please wait while I find a charger...
Finding an electric charging station shouldn't be a problem. The charging station is your garage I plug my car in to trickle charge my Braille battery. Same effort. I plug in my phone. I plug in my laptop. If the parking structure at my work had chargers then my car could be charging 23.5 hours most work days because my commute is 3.5-5 miles one way to work. If the average person drives 30 miles a day and takes two hours to do that because of bad traffic then there is the potential to charge for 22 hours. That is more than enough to serve the 30 miles a day at 120v and then some. Obviously if someone has access to a gen 3 wall charger at their house or destination then they could add potentially a maximum of 44 miles per hour of charging, which is a full charge from a full depleted battery in a typical night. This is the advantage with EVs; there are plugs everywhere and fast chargers are just an option and a means of traveling far, but not necessary for the majority of people on a daily basis.

Even if someone wanted to use a Supercharger, unless they were on a long road trip, the Supercharger would only be needed to make up the difference. For instance, if someone wanted to fully charge the car then cool, but if they just wanted to add more miles than a night of charging because they were doing a longer drive the next day into the city or to visit a friend in the next town then 5 minutes on a V3 Supercharger could add 75 miles. Add that to a slower home charger, and the example above would have added over a hundred or more miles in the worst case scenario with five minutes of effort.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesl...harger-tested/

Because of the above, you can't try to make an apples to apples comparison between hydrogen refueling and EV refueling. The behavior and means of charging is completely different. The fact is that if all cars where hydrogen then we would need 10,266 fuel stations converted to hydrogen or new stations built, and we are far away from that. Are they retrofitting any old stations to save cost? That could be an option, but often times it is cheaper to build new then renovate a structure because of building codes. For EVs, most people only occasionally need a supercharger. The problem is surge usage during holidays and other times.

Your cost analysis is off too. The price of the EV stations is largely the cost of the land and other logistics. They can be built relatively cheaply if there is careful planning. Read the link for a full cost breakdown of what the EVs cost to build and maintain. I think if you research what a hydrogen fuel station costs to maintain and build then you will see there is a big difference. Level 2 charging stations are super cheap. They can put them up for super cheap. Building a parking structure? Plan ahead and add refueling stations at each port. This is already happening. It dramatically brings down the cost of these installs.

Quote:
There is also a wide variation in cost for installing DCFC. In the EV Project, the cost to install over 100 dual port DCFC units ranged from $8,500 to $50,820 with an average installation cost of $23,662. The lower installation costs ($8,500-$20,000) were generally for sites that were able to use existing electrical service. Figure 9 shows the distribution of EV Project DCFC installation costs, by cost tier. The WCEH had an average installation cost of $40,000 for the DCFC. The higher DCFC installation costs for the WCEH compared to the EV Project is partially due to many WCEH installations taking place in rural locations that required electrical service upgrades. The WCEH project had rigorous design and construction standards that required a deep concrete foundation. The EV Project focused on taking advantage of existing electrical service infrastructure to drive down costs.

The Orlando Utilities Commission (OUC) installed five DCFC units in Orlando with installation costs ranging from $4,000-$9,000 each (OUC 2014). They were able to minimize costs through careful selection of site locations such that minimal trenching or boring was needed to connect the DCFC to the electrical service. OUC also conducted a competitive bidding process that included training electricians on how to install EVSE.
https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publ...eport_2015.pdf

Besides the problem of finding a hydrogen fuel station near or needing to drive far to get to a fueling station (44 miles for the closest fueling station to me), the other issue is finding fuel at this time. They can build a lot of fuel stations, but they also need to work on making more hydrogen. Being low on fuel is a big problem right now, and they don't even have many hydrogen cars on the road. Check out the stations, and you will see for yourself.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Spuds (12-20-2020)
Old 12-19-2020, 03:16 AM   #46
Irace86.2.0
Non Sequitur
 
Irace86.2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Drives: Q5 + BRZ + M796
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 4,502
Thanks: 3,420
Thanked 3,391 Times in 1,936 Posts
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbradley View Post
The pricing on the next gen Mirai shows that the fuel cell tech is slowly becoming less expensive. Unlike hybrids, the cost reduction could not be attributed to volume at this point.

Environmentally, less battery is better. The only question is whether the fuel cell will be reusable at end of life for the vehicle or not. That would be a big plus if the cell was essentially a removable/reusable appliance.

I had read a few years ago that researchers in South Korea had built a fuel cell that was catalyzed with carbon tubules. The cost was expected to be far less than using precious metals. Not sure if this or other revisions have reduced the fuel cell cost.

Provided hydrogen continues to prove itself safe to store in a vehicle, fuel cell tech makes a lot of sense when range and refuelling times are important.

Tesla has the lead in premium green vehicles, but I see great potential for the Mirai. The metals used in hybrid batteries could become more costly and scarcer over time. Fuel cells, afaik dont lose their power output ability in a few year like batteries.

Not knowing the lifespan of a typical fuel cell system, everything else is very compelling and it seems like the infrastructure for hydrogen production could easily be incorporated to many existing refuelling facilities.
It seems the fuel cell is recyclable. I don't know how much of it is recyclable though. The life of the fuel cells seems to be 150,000-200,000 miles. I don't know what the life is on the carbon fiber fuel tanks either. Battery life for EVs, or, at least Tesla's, is pretty good. The losses are not that bad, and the new batteries are suppose to last 500,000-1,000,000 miles.



I think fuel cell vehicles are an eventuality once the infrastructure has time to catch up like stations and fuel production, but I think that future is much further away than an EV future, and it probably depends on materials for batteries being scarce, for battery technology to plateau and costs per kWh to plateau higher than is likely. If the cost of batteries continues to fall, the rate of charging continues to increase, the weight of batteries drops, etc. then hydrogen passenger cars might find a small audience. This is especially the case if the performance stays on par with the Mirai: 0-60 in 9.1 seconds!

The fuel is a big part of this whole thing. Right now, 95% of hydrogen fuel comes from fossil fuels. We are investing in wind and solar, but I don't know if we are investing in electrolysis because the energy from electrolysis will need to come from wind and solar and other renewable sources to be clean. So, we essentially need to develop electric production probably before we develop green hydrogen production. Then there is the cost of the fuel at the pump. There is a reason Toyota is offering $15,000 in free fuel. This is because most people might have some shock at the pumps. For instance, the Mirai has fuel tanks with a capacity of 32.3 gallon, but hydrogen fuel is sold by the kg, and the capacity is roughly 5 kg, and the average cost of hydrogen in California is $16/kg, so it will cost $80 to fill up the Mirai if it gets maximum miles. Price could be closer to $100, but it is "free" for 3-5 years, so this point is mostly off the table.

This is a cool article.

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/new-...nder-the-skin/
__________________
Irace86.2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Irace86.2.0 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (12-19-2020)
Old 01-19-2021, 01:09 PM   #47
beltax90
Senior Member
 
beltax90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 2010 corolla
Location: california
Posts: 772
Thanks: 606
Thanked 874 Times in 408 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
beltax90 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beltax90 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 01:25 PM   #48
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 15,429
Thanks: 29,289
Thanked 17,410 Times in 8,228 Posts
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beltax90 View Post
Mirai review by Doug
Thanks for posting. The external of the car is pretty bland to me, and the nose is too long, but maybe that's just the angle of the external view.

Sadly, no Mirai for me anyway since I live on the wrong side of the country for that option.

As a reviewer, Doug is growing on me, although I still have to just listen and not watch when he does external shots and is doing his impression of a goose trying to take off after getting it's leg trapped.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 01:27 PM   #49
beltax90
Senior Member
 
beltax90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Drives: 2010 corolla
Location: california
Posts: 772
Thanks: 606
Thanked 874 Times in 408 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
doug 1.5x speed is perfect
beltax90 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beltax90 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 08:56 PM   #50
mav1178
Senior Member
 
mav1178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: 2005 Toyota Camry
Location: 91745
Posts: 6,433
Thanks: 492
Thanked 5,957 Times in 2,967 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Late replies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
Nobody is going to call them out for the seriously tacky name? I'd expect it from Kia and Hyundai, not Toyota...

Edit: for those not in the know, Mirai means future
Why not? It's Toyota's gamble on the future after all. They're invested in hybrid + FCVs moving forward, not battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquachulator View Post
I read that the mirai started off as the next gen Lexus GS project before that car was dropped completely, and then this just got repurposed as a Toyota Mirai.

There are some Lexus cues in it (Especially the instrument binnacle area...looks straight out of Lexus) and the fact that the Mirai started off as an oddball looking FWD stretched Prius tank and all of a sudden did a complete 180 on a RWD platform with proper RWD size and proportions and relatively good looks makes that rumor believable.
First gen Mirai is built on a modified Prius platform, hence the odd shape and size. The car also had part of the fuel cell stack mounted in the passenger cabin so there was always odd noises coming when the car was running, my friend's dad has one. Just starting it in the garage and you hear all sorts of random crap for a car that was supposed to be future tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
They managed to reduce stack weight by 50% and increase power. But then increased vehicle weight by 200lb? Possibly due to the increased size or fuel tank layout/capacity?
The main reason for the weight increase was the use of the Lexus LS RWD platform (instead of the lighter Priux XW30 platform).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
You actually don't need as many hydrogen stations as chargers for the same amount of cars. To fill an empty hydrogen car is what, 5 minutes?
That's my number one reason for wanting a fuel cell vehicle as my next true non-gasoline car. Once you have enough stations set up, you can go anywhere...

If there's enough range for me to drive to Mammoth Mountain and back without refuelling (currently ~600 miles from my house) then that is the one I'll buy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbradley View Post
The pricing on the next gen Mirai shows that the fuel cell tech is slowly becoming less expensive. Unlike hybrids, the cost reduction could not be attributed to volume at this point.
More efficient manufacturing, if nothing else. The platform is more cost effective since it wasn't so heavily modified, and plus they were able to fit the actual fuel cell stack under the hood for a change.

Still, the tiny trunk is very disappointing, as well as the oddly large transmission tunnel.
mav1178 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mav1178 For This Useful Post:
Spuds (01-19-2021)
Old 01-19-2021, 09:03 PM   #51
DarkPira7e
No, my car doesn't run
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,913
Thanks: 2,075
Thanked 2,628 Times in 1,389 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post

Why not? It's Toyota's gamble on the future after all. They're invested in hybrid + FCVs moving forward, not battery.
For exactly that reason- it's the future now, but in 40 years it'll be some prehistoric tech that started something possibly worthwhile.
Imagine if Nintendo or someone named their next ground breaking console "Mirai".

I'm not saying they can't, just that the word dates whatever it's attached to immediately
__________________
Turbo FR-S Build - Build Thread
JDL EL Recirc manifold, Boostlab BL58x Turbo w/ T51R, 17x9 ARC-8, IAG block
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 10:47 PM   #52
Spuds
The Dictater
 
Spuds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Drives: '13 Red Scion FRS
Location: MD, USA
Posts: 5,649
Thanks: 15,311
Thanked 6,543 Times in 3,461 Posts
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
For exactly that reason- it's the future now, but in 40 years it'll be some prehistoric tech that started something possibly worthwhile.
Imagine if Nintendo or someone named their next ground breaking console "Mirai".

I'm not saying they can't, just that the word dates whatever it's attached to immediately
Mirai is a test vehicle. My guess is they are planning to move the more recognizable nameplates to hfcv and retire the Mirai name until the next big thing. It's actually brilliant because now they own that name for a car. If fuel cells/ vehicles are successful, which I am certain they will be, it's a great marketing move to get people on board with the next big technology shift.

But I suppose they could have did what Ford did and name their first bev cuv after their muscle car, which is named after a plane which is named after an even older transportation technology...
Spuds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 08:07 AM   #53
DarkPira7e
No, my car doesn't run
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 2,913
Thanks: 2,075
Thanked 2,628 Times in 1,389 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuds View Post
Mirai is a test vehicle. My guess is they are planning to move the more recognizable nameplates to hfcv and retire the Mirai name until the next big thing. It's actually brilliant because now they own that name for a car. If fuel cells/ vehicles are successful, which I am certain they will be, it's a great marketing move to get people on board with the next big technology shift.

But I suppose they could have did what Ford did and name their first bev cuv after their muscle car, which is named after a plane which is named after an even older transportation technology...
Makes sense for a test name. Owning the name is a good move, you're right. Last thing we need is GM owning it and assigning it to their vehicle with built in microwaves to align with a pre-cooked food strategy for fast food chains.
__________________
Turbo FR-S Build - Build Thread
JDL EL Recirc manifold, Boostlab BL58x Turbo w/ T51R, 17x9 ARC-8, IAG block
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkPira7e For This Useful Post:
Spuds (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 01:38 PM   #54
FR-S2GT86
Senior Member
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: '15 FR-S
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 385
Thanks: 42
Thanked 185 Times in 136 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
Makes sense for a test name. Owning the name is a good move, you're right. Last thing we need is GM owning it and assigning it to their vehicle with built in microwaves to align with a pre-cooked food strategy for fast food chains.

GM sucks! They are nailing their own coffin shut and I refuse to ever purchase another one of their vehicles. Need proof? See here:

__________________
ďIíve learned many things over the years. One of the most important things is if you ever find yourself in a room full of like-minded assholes, donít be the BIGGEST asshole, be the BEST!Ē
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FR-S2GT86 For This Useful Post:
Irace86.2.0 (01-22-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 02:46 PM   #55
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 15,429
Thanks: 29,289
Thanked 17,410 Times in 8,228 Posts
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
GM sucks! They are nailing their own coffin shut and I refuse to ever purchase another one of their vehicles. Need proof? See here
Not saying this doesn't suck on the part of GM, but I guess you are saying you think this tactic is a GM only one? At one point or another every manufacturer has faced similar issues and not owned up to them.

Let's take one I have experience with the 2003 Honda Accord. Not only are the transmissions known to slip and basically lose 2nd gear (so much so that Honda faced a lawsuit and extended the warranty but most problems didn't occur until AFTER the mileage in the extended warranty). The problem is bad enough the transmission cannot be repaired, it has to be replaced. They also have self-peeling clear coat on them that starts coming off usually about the time the car hits just above the paint warranty. The only remedy is a full repaint.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (01-20-2021)
Old 01-20-2021, 02:49 PM   #56
ichitaka05
Site Moderator
 
ichitaka05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: ichi 86 Project
Location: Middle of No where
Posts: 19,351
Thanks: 6,244
Thanked 16,026 Times in 7,200 Posts
Mentioned: 605 Post(s)
Tagged: 27 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beltax90 View Post
IDK why ppl watch him review cars. Seeing in person PLUS watching some review clearly don't know what he's talking about nor bother reading the spec info GIVEN to him.
__________________
ichitaka05 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toyota Mirai - Hydrogen powered car TylerLieberman Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions 29 04-15-2016 05:50 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.