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Old 01-05-2021, 04:12 PM   #491
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I mean it's probably for the greater good. no sense wasting resources on them. I know that sounds harsh but it's true.


In emergency/mass-casualty/multi-trauma scenarios, the triage protocol is to tag everyone with a severity color and then to assess resources to determine who will be treated. The philosophy utilized is very much that the ends justify the means for the greatest good--consequentialism. Kant and lawyers may want to argue for his Categorical Imperative or deontological ethics, but these people would be arguing for an absolutist/single moral perspective and wouldn't be very pragmatic.


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One final example of deontological shortcomings exists in the realm of triage or public health. In a disaster situation, Kantís principles lead us to believe that providers have absolute moral duties to provide care to every patient[1]. However, in an emergency situation, providers must make decisions that place some needs ahead of others. Because providers must consider consequences of action versus inaction in a triage situation, a different, consequentialist ethical theory would be more fitting to help providers make this type of ethical decision.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459296/




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Old 01-05-2021, 04:24 PM   #492
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Does make you wonder if there should be "after testing" to test each individual's response.

As I recall, the polio vaccine required 4 doses to get close to 100% effective.


Well, they could do a titer/antibody test. You could go get one of the ones already offered to see if you have active antibodies. I don't know how accurate the antibody tests are because those were initially authorized under the EUA. I'm sure they got better.


I might get tested just to see. I'll have to look into it, but thanks for bringing this up.
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:13 PM   #493
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I might get tested just to see. I'll have to look into it, but thanks for bringing this up.
Yea, I may do the same, even if its out of pocket.
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:42 AM   #494
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Looks like my family will have experience with both Pfizer and Moderna. MomHawk is getting the Moderna vaccine on Friday through the school system where she works as an Occupational Therapist.
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Old 01-07-2021, 01:54 AM   #495
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We had someone have some type of allergic reaction today to the Moderna vaccine. I don’t know the whole specifics.

FYI, breaking new records today...261k new cases and 4,100 deaths.
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Old 01-07-2021, 02:02 AM   #496
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We had someone have some type of allergic reaction today to the Moderna vaccine. I don’t know the whole specifics.

FYI, breaking new records today...261k new cases and 4,100 deaths.
I heard there have been a few allergic reactions. Wouldn't that have been something they found in trials?

Also heard that someplace managed to distribute and inject 800 doses in 2 hours. I suppose that's one point for indiscriminate vaccination, though the allergic reaction may be a point against.
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Old 01-07-2021, 02:39 AM   #497
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I heard there have been a few allergic reactions. Wouldn't that have been something they found in trials?

Also heard that someplace managed to distribute and inject 800 doses in 2 hours. I suppose that's one point for indiscriminate vaccination, though the allergic reaction may be a point against.
They did find side effects and reactions. Allergic reactions are very rare. It seems to be linked to an agentópolyethylene glycol. See uses:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol

That happened at Ukiah Valley Medical center, which is a little over an hour north of here. My mother in-law lives in Ukiah and is a former reporter/writer for the news paper, but now is a public relations officer for the county. Iím sure she is privileged to information others are not, but the short and sweet from the news papers are that the fridge failed, and there was a huge coordination from multiple facilities to get the doses out before they spoiled. For the most part, everything seems like it worked out in the end...maybe.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:17 AM   #498
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I heard there have been a few allergic reactions. Wouldn't that have been something they found in trials?.
It's possible that people with known allergic reactions to ingredients in the vaccine were excluded from trials. My understanding is that is not unusual. I know when I volunteered for the trial I had to complete a survey that asked, amongst other things, full disclosure of any allergic reaction to any food, drug, etc.

There are lots of warnings about this on the vaccine, and in the various materials available.

I was also asked prior to being given the Pfizer vaccine if I had any known allergies at all, not just to vaccines. Since I have an allergy to NSAID and Penicillin I was required to sit for observation for 30 minutes after the injection.
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Old 01-07-2021, 12:50 PM   #499
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@Spuds, speaking of allergic reactions I saw this today (posted today)

Quote:
Originally Posted by American Journal of Medical Care
CDC Says COVID-19 Vaccine Benefits Outweigh Allergic Reaction Risk
As rollout of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines begins across America, reports of 21 severe allergic reactions may have some worried about receiving either the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. However, the rate of severe allergic reactions remains minimal as nearly 2 million Americans have already been vaccinated, The Washington Post reports. On Wednesday, the CDC announced reports of rare reactions should not dissuade Americans from getting vaccinated as the risk of catching and becoming severely ill or dying from COVID-19 outweighs that of a potential allergic reaction. Of the 21 individuals who experienced a reaction, most had a history of such reactions and 20 have fully recovered. Currently, COVID-19 is killing an average of 2670 Americans each day, while the CDC foresees the imminent spread of a highly contagious coronavirus variant, first reported in the United Kingdom, throughout the United States.
source
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Old 01-07-2021, 02:37 PM   #500
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Effective Monday 1/11 Georgia is opening up vaccines to First Responders and those over 65.

MomHawk got her shot today in the "vaccine drivethrough" they've set up at the Fair Grounds. She never had to get out of her car.

That makes 3 of the 4 in our immediate household that have received Dose 1. Unfortunately, the 4th may have to wait a while as his job isn't classified as priority.
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Old 01-07-2021, 03:52 PM   #501
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1.5m vaccinated so far.. Feels very slow and low considering the number of doses that have been ordered and delivered..
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Old 01-07-2021, 04:16 PM   #502
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1.5m vaccinated so far.. Feels very slow and low considering the number of doses that have been ordered and delivered..
This isn't the what's for lunch thread! We ain't slow cookin' this vaccine!

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Old 01-07-2021, 04:26 PM   #503
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1.5m vaccinated so far.. Feels very slow and low considering the number of doses that have been ordered and delivered..
That number is old I believe. The process is speeding up as more become eligible for the shot. According to Bloomberg, the US is at 5.5M shots given as of today.

Next week you'll start seeing the gap between doses distributed and administered narrow as persons start receiving their second shot.

As I understand it, the first deliveries included both the first and second shot required, so the best we could do before week 3 is hit 50% distribution.
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Old 01-07-2021, 04:35 PM   #504
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That number is old I believe. The process is speeding up as more become eligible for the shot. According to Bloomberg, the US is at 5.5M shots given as of today.

Next week you'll start seeing the gap between doses distributed and administered narrow as persons start receiving their second shot.

As I understand it, the first deliveries included both the first and second shot required, so the best we could do before week 3 is hit 50% distribution.
Now that is definitely something worth noting. I didn't even think about that.
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