cheapest sub 2.00 BW CW13 car out

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by showrun

haha, I remember you! Your thread about considering an 86 track car because of the $400/hr running cost of your Corvette was one of the major reasons why I came to this platform - vs going back to Corvette with a C5Z06.

On the C6, I used OEM C5Z06 front pads for several years. With ATE Super Blue. That's what I mean by hybrid pad. They're not a terrible pad, but not a pure race pad like the PFC I got in the end.

Man, I went right through my stock C6 (stingray) pads in literally 2 laps. They were gone.

Also, why anyone runs anything other than SRF is beyond me. Just flush it once a year and call it good.

Oh, it was ~500/hr without engine, trans, diff, bearings, bushings, etc. as they were under warranty. BRZ is probably $200 WITH all that stuff. Miata is basically free if I run 200TW. I run hoosier scrubs and they'll probably last 8 hours and cost $400, lol. Brakes last forever (and rotors are $75/set)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

Man, I went right through my stock C6 (stingray) pads in literally 2 laps. They were gone.

Also, why anyone runs anything other than SRF is beyond me. Just flush it once a year and call it good.

Oh, it was ~500/hr without engine, trans, diff, bearings, bushings, etc. as they were under warranty. BRZ is probably $200 WITH all that stuff. Miata is basically free if I run 200TW. I run hoosier scrubs and they'll probably last 8 hours and cost $400, lol. Brakes last forever (and rotors are $75/set)

Endless?

[Will_]

I find myself in a similar situation. Currently the GR86 is my only car serving dual duty, about 10-12 track days a year. With the 7k/8k springs and 255 V730s I get pretty beat up commuting (roads suck in many places). This month I’m actually making the car a bit more street friendly at the cost of speed on track, going back to softer suspension and SX2s. I think I may have more fun with a dedicated track car and leasing a cheap daily. My budget would be about 20-25k so I could have 5-7.5k left for track prep. That means C5, C5Z06, C6, older S550 or S197 Mustang. The other option is to buy a SS1LE or new Mustang GT PP new if I want to continue with the dual duty route but go faster. Idk. I have giant spreadsheet already made up calculating out consumable costs, depreciation, financing foster, everything lol.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Endless?

Castrol SRF: 310°C/590°F dry and 270°C/518°F wet.
Endless RF-650: 323°C/613°F dry and 218°C/424°F wet.

Basically, no difference completely dry (you're not going to boil either unless something is very wrong)

and almost 100 degrees different wet, where 424 is low enough to be in danger of boiling (but 518 is pretty high).

I dont know about Endless, but SRF isn't very hydrophillic either.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by Will_

I find myself in a similar situation. Currently the GR86 is my only car serving dual duty, about 10-12 track days a year. With the 7k/8k springs and 255 V730s I get pretty beat up commuting (roads suck in many places). This month I’m actually making the car a bit more street friendly at the cost of speed on track, going back to softer suspension and SX2s. I think I may have more fun with a dedicated track car and leasing a cheap daily. My budget would be about 20-25k so I could have 5-7.5k left for track prep. That means C5, C5Z06, C6, older S550 or S197 Mustang. The other option is to buy a SS1LE or new Mustang GT PP new if I want to continue with the dual duty route but go faster. Idk. I have giant spreadsheet already made up calculating out consumable costs, depreciation, financing foster, everything lol.

As someone who has tried it ever which way, don't do dual duty. It just gets more and more expensive, stressful, etc. On top of that, dual duty will always have far more compromises and not drive the same as a track car.

Convert the BRZ to track only duty and get a nice daily. Money and performance aside, you'll love the peace of mind of sipping coffee in a a reliable way to get to work .

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

Castrol SRF: 310°C/590°F dry and 270°C/518°F wet.
Endless RF-650: 323°C/613°F dry and 218°C/424°F wet.

Basically, no difference completely dry (you're not going to boil either unless something is very wrong)

and almost 100 degrees different wet, where 424 is low enough to be in danger of boiling (but 518 is pretty high).

I dont know about Endless, but SRF isn't very hydrophillic either.

I don't buy based on boiling specs... do you? Like you said, you're not going to boil the fluid, so there must be another reason why.... like how the fluid compresses.

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't buy based on boiling specs... do you? Like you said, you're not going to boil the fluid, so there must be another reason why.... like how the fluid compresses.

Yes, I do base my purchase on boiling points.
The only compressibility I care about is not compressing vapor, so high boiling point.

I've swapped fluids before and can't tell a difference. Quite frankly, I find it preposterous that people claim it makes a difference. Between everything that is changing from tire temps to heat cycles to pad temps to the wind and air temperature, the last thing I care about is compressibility of one brake fluid compared to another.

I bet that even at 400 degrees, there is less than 0.01" of pedal travel difference between SRF and Endless. and whatever it is, it's going to be constant anyway. There's just no way I'd notice, let alone it effect anything.

Marketing hype and Placebo at best imo.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

Yes, I do base my purchase on boiling points.
The only compressibility I care about is not compressing vapor, so high boiling point.

I've swapped fluids before and can't tell a difference. Quite frankly, I find it preposterous that people claim it makes a difference. Between everything that is changing from tire temps to heat cycles to pad temps to the wind and air temperature, the last thing I care about is compressibility of one brake fluid compared to another.

I bet that even at 400 degrees, there is less than 0.01" of pedal travel difference between SRF and Endless. and whatever it is, it's going to be constant anyway. There's just no way I'd notice, let alone it effect anything.

Marketing hype and Placebo at best imo.

That's a bet I'd take any day.

The compressibility of the fluid is actually part of pedal tuning for drivers. For drivers who like to crush the pedal, you use SRF for the extra squish. For drivers who like a firmer pedal, you use Endless. Depending on the braking system, you can use fluid choice to determine if the pedal is longer or shorter, when you have no other way to adjust the hydraulic system, or want a change in a hurry.

The two are the only fluids used at high level motorsport for that exact reason.

The compressibility difference is large enough that you'd see the difference with even just a hand piston.

The only folks who can't feel the difference in blind testing are the folks who just sit in ABS all day (in which case SRF is almost always the better choice).

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The compressibility difference is large enough that you'd see the difference with even just a hand piston.

I was of the same mind as @GrandSport - fluids are uncompressible, end of story. Turns out I'm wrong and there is a lot of variations in how uncompressible they actually are. Mind blown!

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

For drivers who like to crush the pedal, you use SRF for the extra squish. For drivers who like a firmer pedal, you use Endless.

Very nice summary for us newbs, thank you!

Here's an external reference with some details - https://www.torquebrakefluid.com/abc.html (the Compressibility section):

A research report published by Union Carbide demonstrates a relationship between the compressibility of a brake fluid and its density (or specific gravity). The greater the density of a brake fluid the less compressible it is. As there is no DOT specification, within the scope of the Polyalkylene Glycol Ether-based fluids there can be a density difference range of over 200% between fluids!

[GrandSport]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's a bet I'd take any day.

The compressibility of the fluid is actually part of pedal tuning for drivers. For drivers who like to crush the pedal, you use SRF for the extra squish. For drivers who like a firmer pedal, you use Endless. Depending on the braking system, you can use fluid choice to determine if the pedal is longer or shorter, when you have no other way to adjust the hydraulic system, or want a change in a hurry.

The two are the only fluids used at high level motorsport for that exact reason.

The compressibility difference is large enough that you'd see the difference with even just a hand piston.

The only folks who can't feel the difference in blind testing are the folks who just sit in ABS all day (in which case SRF is almost always the better choice).

IDK, I've swapped fluids countless times and never noticed a difference at all. Heck, one of my cars doesn't even have ABS.
Whatever it is, it's pretty easy to adapt to it. As I said, there dozens of other variables that are far more significant. fluid compressibility is more or less in the noise, at best.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

IDK, I've swapped fluids countless times and never noticed a difference at all. Heck, one of my cars doesn't even have ABS.
Whatever it is, it's pretty easy to adapt to it. As I said, there dozens of other variables that are far more significant. fluid compressibility is more or less in the noise, at best.

tons of permutations sure, but when all other possibilities are held in check, and ONLY the fluid is compared A/B, it will be pretty apparent to someone with your experience!

That said, you're already on SRF. Nothing wrong with sticking with what works, in this case.

[GrandSport]

Yeah, for sure. At this point, I have enough things I'm trying to change on entry. The last thing I need to do is have a new excuse!

There's also a huge value to swapping it once a year and not having to mess with it or worry about it, which is what its extremely high boiling point gives me.