AT Fluid Suggestions

[Fast_Freddy]

FWIW my turbocharged 2008 Scion XB AT worked much better with M1 ATF than Toyota WS. The M1 ATF I used was D4 viscosity rather than the "fuel economy" WS/D6 viscosity. In my case I experienced higher line pressures, less clutch slippage, firmer shifts and lower ATF temps. IMO the oem shift to thinner ATF is motivated exclusively by CAFE standards and actually sacrifices some mechanical longevity for slight fuel savings.


The stock XB made 160/160 bhp/wtq and mine made 250/250 for ~40k miles on M1 ATF. Hardly a definitive test but switching from D6/WS to D4 ATF viscosity didn't damage my trans in 40k miles. I will add that I chose M1 over Redline D4 because D4 was considerably thicker than the M1 despite being in the same class of ATF. The RL D4 probably would have worked great too but I wanted to minimize the viscosity change. In talking with the folks at IPT they like Amsoil ATF (D4 viscosity) and fill all of their built trans with it regardless of factory fill (WS/D6).


Also, this is a great way to flush your ATF. I distrust those flush machines since some of them can damage your trans. Simply drain the trans and refill. This will change roughly 1/2 of the total ATF. Next disconnect the line leading from the external cooler to the trans and route it to a suitable empty container. Start the engine and let the trans pump out 2 qts of old ATF. Stop engine, add 2 qts new ATF and repeat until new ATF enters container. You should see a distinct color change. If not, go by the quantity drained/added. This method achieves a complete flush and can be done anywhere in about an hour.

[FastWhite]

Our cars need a very shear stable, low viscosity fluid. One member here had, by mistake, Redline D4 put in by the shop. It ran poorly. Put the D6 in and it ran better than stock.
Your method of changing the fluid has also, independently, been recommended. The machine can bend the torque convertor vanes.
And yes, the Toyota WS doesn't liked to be tracked.


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[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

FWIW my turbocharged 2008 Scion XB AT worked much better with M1 ATF than Toyota WS. The M1 ATF I used was D4 viscosity rather than the "fuel economy" WS/D6 viscosity. In my case I experienced higher line pressures, less clutch slippage, firmer shifts and lower ATF temps. IMO the oem shift to thinner ATF is motivated exclusively by CAFE standards and actually sacrifices some mechanical longevity for slight fuel savings.


The stock XB made 160/160 bhp/wtq and mine made 250/250 for ~40k miles on M1 ATF. Hardly a definitive test but switching from D6/WS to D4 ATF viscosity didn't damage my trans in 40k miles. I will add that I chose M1 over Redline D4 because D4 was considerably thicker than the M1 despite being in the same class of ATF. The RL D4 probably would have worked great too but I wanted to minimize the viscosity change. In talking with the folks at IPT they like Amsoil ATF (D4 viscosity) and fill all of their built trans with it regardless of factory fill (WS/D6).


Also, this is a great way to flush your ATF. I distrust those flush machines since some of them can damage your trans. Simply drain the trans and refill. This will change roughly 1/2 of the total ATF. Next disconnect the line leading from the external cooler to the trans and route it to a suitable empty container. Start the engine and let the trans pump out 2 qts of old ATF. Stop engine, add 2 qts new ATF and repeat until new ATF enters container. You should see a distinct color change. If not, go by the quantity drained/added. This method achieves a complete flush and can be done anywhere in about an hour.

Originally Posted by FastWhite

Our cars need a very shear stable, low viscosity fluid. One member here had, by mistake, Redline D4 put in by the shop. It ran poorly. Put the D6 in and it ran better than stock.
Your method of changing the fluid has also, independently, been recommended. The machine can bend the torque convertor vanes.
And yes, the Toyota WS doesn't liked to be tracked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I had a shop mistakenly put D4 in mine. It mad slight grinding noises in reverse and neutral. I couldn't hear it in drive but it was getting noticeably louder in the 3 days until I figured out the mistake. The D6 runs very well.

Just curious, how does the Toyota WS dislike the track? Should the Redline be better suited?

[FastWhite]

Originally Posted by Tye300

Need some suggestions, I'm planning to change the ATF again. It seems the Toyota WS ATF doesn't like being tracked. I notice after a few track days that the AT does not shift as crisp as when the fluid is new. I don't know if I'm making sense or not, but that's how it feels to me. It seems like the clutch packs slip a little more than when the ATF is new.

The question is, what is the equivalent viscosity of the stock ATF? Or should I try some performance oriented brands? Any AT owners changed to other ATFs than the stock one?

Here is the quote that I was referring to. I have plans to do my own fluid swap and have been researching a whole bunch.
Come with a few interesting tidbits.


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[aegisdrgn]

@AZP Installs would you care to update us on your customer experiences with different fluids and such? =)

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by aegisdrgn

@AZP Installs would you care to update us on your customer experiences with different fluids and such? =)

We've been running the Motul Gear 300 75w90 in our MT and Rear diffy on our project BRZ as well as swapped it out for probably 30+ customer cars. Very positive results from the butt dyno in terms of smoothness of shifts. Being a full synthetic it should protect for at least 30K miles unless you are doing lots of track events, then we suggest changing it at the beginning of the season for sure.

-mike

[aegisdrgn]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

We've been running the Motul Gear 300 75w90 in our MT and Rear diffy on our project BRZ as well as swapped it out for probably 30+ customer cars. Very positive results from the butt dyno in terms of smoothness of shifts. Being a full synthetic it should protect for at least 30K miles unless you are doing lots of track events, then we suggest changing it at the beginning of the season for sure.

-mike

I expect not many AT's get into your shop - have you changed your recommendations in regards to AT fluid?

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by aegisdrgn

I expect not many AT's get into your shop - have you changed your recommendations in regards to AT fluid?

Yeah we still haven't done any drain-fills on the BRZ/FRSs yet.

Looking over the specs it looks like in the Redline you need the D6 ATF not the High Temp ATF for the Toyota Transmission that's in these cars. So I would stick with the:

Redline D6 ATF
Motul Multi-ATF
Amsoil Signature Series ATF

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[roddy]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Yeah we still haven't done any drain-fills on the BRZ/FRSs yet.

Looking over the specs it looks like in the Redline you need the D6 ATF not the High Temp ATF for the Toyota Transmission that's in these cars. So I would stick with the:

Redline D6 ATF
Motul Multi-ATF
Amsoil Signature Series ATF

-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Just to add to your post... Going by the industry standard/most common spec, Dexron III (I know it is a GM thing but it is the easiest to find) is a little thick for this application. Dexron IV more closely matches the WS/D6 spec. There are 2 Amsoil Signature Series ATFs. For this application, the fuel efficient version (not the multi vehicle one) should meet the Dexron IV/WS spec.

I checked out Motul's European site, and only found Dexron III. I found the multi vehicle formula on the North American site, and it is rated Dexron III as well. Also worth noting...Technosynthese is Motul's way of saying semi-synthetic (not that that's a bad thing...I'm sure it is an excellent product).

I'm only bringing this up because someone mentioned having issues when using the Redline D4 (Dexron III rated).


That said, I don't have an Automatic. If I did, and I was looking to change the fluid, I would go with your 1st recommendation, and use Redline D6.

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by roddy

Just to add to your post... Going by the industry standard/most common spec, Dexron III (I know it is a GM thing but it is the easiest to find) is a little thick for this application. Dexron IV more closely matches the WS/D6 spec. There are 2 Amsoil Signature Series ATFs. For this application, the fuel efficient version (not the multi vehicle one) should meet the Dexron IV/WS spec.

I checked out Motul's European site, and only found Dexron III. I found the multi vehicle formula on the North American site, and it is rated Dexron III as well. Also worth noting...Technosynthese is Motul's way of saying semi-synthetic (not that that's a bad thing...I'm sure it is an excellent product).

I'm only bringing this up because someone mentioned having issues when using the Redline D4 (Dexron III rated).


That said, I don't have an Automatic. If I did, and I was looking to change the fluid, I would go with your 1st recommendation, and use Redline D6.

Not to be a PITA but here is the tech sheet for the Multi-ATF, the full synthetic sold here in the US and it is in fact Toyota WS rated....

https://www.motul.com/system/product...pdf?1409848764

Maybe you looked at an old website or something. Often times the Motul will cover a wider range of specs than other lubes. For instance Motul Gear 300 75w90 is rated at GL-4 and GL-5 which is uncommon for gear lubes. Most are GL-4 OR GL-5 but not both. (the BRZ/FRS Manual Transmission cars call for GL-3/GL-4 for the transmission and GL-5 for the rear diffy).

-mike

[roddy]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Not to be a PITA but here is the tech sheet for the Multi-ATF, the full synthetic sold here in the US and it is in fact Toyota WS rated....

https://www.motul.com/system/product...pdf?1409848764

Maybe you looked at an old website or something. Often times the Motul will cover a wider range of specs than other lubes. For instance Motul Gear 300 75w90 is rated at GL-4 and GL-5 which is uncommon for gear lubes. Most are GL-4 OR GL-5 but not both. (the BRZ/FRS Manual Transmission cars call for GL-3/GL-4 for the transmission and GL-5 for the rear diffy).

-mike

You're not being a PITA at all and thanks for the link. I was looking at the Canadian site. I see it also meets the DW-1 Honda spec...unusual for a Dexron III. Good to know.
I have been looking at ATFs recently, as my other car's manual transmission calls for a Dexron III type fluid...pretty sure I'm going to use Redline's D4 for that application.

[Campo]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Not to be a PITA but here is the tech sheet for the Multi-ATF, the full synthetic sold here in the US and it is in fact Toyota WS rated....

https://www.motul.com/system/product...pdf?1409848764

Maybe you looked at an old website or something. Often times the Motul will cover a wider range of specs than other lubes. For instance Motul Gear 300 75w90 is rated at GL-4 and GL-5 which is uncommon for gear lubes. Most are GL-4 OR GL-5 but not both. (the BRZ/FRS Manual Transmission cars call for GL-3/GL-4 for the transmission and GL-5 for the rear diffy).

-mike

Any autos make their way through your shop in the past year or any new thoughts on automatic tranny fluids for track cars?

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by Campo

Any autos make their way through your shop in the past year or any new thoughts on automatic tranny fluids for track cars?

Very few ATs have made their way through. The few we've completed services on we've used the Motul ATF without issue. Haven't seen any on track at all.



-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Very few ATs have made their way through. The few we've completed services on we've used the Motul ATF without issue. Haven't seen any on track at all.



-Mike Paisan


Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Well you guys are pretty close to where I live (1 hour drive) when the interval arrives I'll surely call you guys up.