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Old 09-18-2021, 02:18 PM   #57
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Zack only says that if everything is fine, the car should start up fine. Even with the compression ratios changed.
My custom tune is for built motor with a turbo on it. Not built motor with NA tune.

I'm just trying to get my motor running okay without the turbo first, and I also don't have the turbo kit yet. Over 2 months waiting =(..

As for the upstream o2 unplugged start up, i havent tried this yet. what would this do?
When you say to disconnect the O2 sensor you mean just the connector right?

Yes, just the connector on the front, left side of the engine. This should tell the ECU that your upstream O2 sensor is at fault and should default to a base map so that the engine will run (probably in limp mode) but this should also turn your check engine light on and (maybe) allow it to run for a little while.

See these pictures here,

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Name:  IMG_20210918_140629096~2.jpg
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The upstream sensor is the one on the right side that the red arrow is pointing to in the second picture.
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:32 PM   #58
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Yes, just the connector on the front, left side of the engine. This should tell the ECU that your upstream O2 sensor is at fault and should default to a base map so that the engine will run (probably in limp mode) but this should also turn your check engine light on and (maybe) allow it to run for a little while.

See these pictures here,

Attachment 205340

Attachment 205341

The upstream sensor is the one on the right side that the red arrow is pointing to in the second picture.

Thanks. Ive tried that but im assuming im doing to check if the car fuel is still lean? It does startup fine without the upstream o2 sensor plugged in. Post cel P0031 - HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 1

She also fires up just fine without the MAF connected.
Just like when the car fires up without the MAF, both LTFT and STFT show no data for startup without upstream o2 but i was running for under 20 seconds.


https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/cold-s...?log=0&data=28

1st log is with everything plugged in. she dies. I just do this for every 1st start of the day. 2nd is with the upstream o2 unplugged
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:03 PM   #59
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Thanks. Ive tried that but im assuming im doing to check if the car fuel is still lean? It does startup fine without the upstream o2 sensor plugged in. Post cel P0031 - HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 1

She also fires up just fine without the MAF connected.
Just like when the car fires up without the MAF, both LTFT and STFT show no data for startup without upstream o2 but i was running for under 20 seconds.


https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/cold-s...?log=0&data=28

1st log is with everything plugged in. she dies. I just do this for every 1st start of the day. 2nd is with the upstream o2 unplugged

So it seems to run okay on the default map without the O2 sensor data, that's good. There are several other sensors other than O2 and MAF that could be at fault. There's the MAP sensor, the IAT sensor, etc.
Can you allow the engine to idle without the O2 sensor connected for long enough to get the engine up to operating temperature, then reconnect the O2 sensor, erase those two codes, and start it back up to see if it will then idle properly using the O2 sensor data at normal operating temp?

And to ask again, are all of your sensors OEM, or are any aftermarket sensors installed?
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:38 PM   #60
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So it seems to run okay on the default map without the O2 sensor data, that's good. There are several other sensors other than O2 and MAF that could be at fault. There's the MAP sensor, the IAT sensor, etc.
Can you allow the engine to idle without the O2 sensor connected for long enough to get the engine up to operating temperature, then reconnect the O2 sensor, erase those two codes, and start it back up to see if it will then idle properly using the O2 sensor data at normal operating temp?

And to ask again, are all of your sensors OEM, or are any aftermarket sensors installed?
I'll try that today. I believe the IAT sensor is in the MAF sensor and the MAF is brand new OEM.

I also have purchased another OEM upstream 02 sensor but might return it i dont believe the 02 is the issue. Engine just wants to run lean even with throttle.

I actually drove it a short distance but barely any throttle input. I didnt notice til today when i looked it seems to have alot of knocking signal.

https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/riv?lo...37-46-50-51-52

No, all my sensors are OEM except for the coolant temp sensor. It is an aftermarket one but i don't believe it to be the issue. It is brand new but i can always switch back to the OEM coolant temp sensor.
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Old 09-19-2021, 01:55 PM   #61
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I'll try that today. I believe the IAT sensor is in the MAF sensor and the MAF is brand new OEM.

I also have purchased another OEM upstream 02 sensor but might return it i dont believe the 02 is the issue. Engine just wants to run lean even with throttle.

I actually drove it a short distance but barely any throttle input. I didnt notice til today when i looked it seems to have alot of knocking signal.

https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/riv?lo...37-46-50-51-52

No, all my sensors are OEM except for the coolant temp sensor. It is an aftermarket one but i don't believe it to be the issue. It is brand new but i can always switch back to the OEM coolant temp sensor.

If you install that new O2 sensor, it will eliminate the possibility that the 02 sensor is the cause of your problem if you still have the problem afterwards. It would at least give you peace of mind knowing that wasn't the problem. And you can always keep the old one in the new box to have as a spare.

Edit: What does your aftermarket coolant temp sensor tell you the temperature of the coolant is when the engine is cold? It should read around the same temperature as the ambient temperature.
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Old 09-19-2021, 02:09 PM   #62
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If you install that new O2 sensor, it will eliminate the possibility that the 02 sensor is the cause of your problem if you still have the problem afterwards. It would at least give you peace of mind knowing that wasn't the problem. And you can always keep the old one in the new box to have as a spare.

Edit: What does your aftermarket coolant temp sensor tell you the temperature of the coolant is when the engine is cold? It should read around the same temperature as the ambient temperature.
Yes, you're correct, but since these parts aren't cheap. It's a waste to me when the result is the same, is all. If the issue is resolved or somewhat different, at least purchasing whatever item did something. There's still a list of things to check.

The coolant temps read fine. https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/cold-s...9-28&mark=8-23

this log shows a cold start, very first of the day. Ambient temps are around 75F and coolant temps are 68F. it was like 10am or something like that and car was in the shade.
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Old 09-19-2021, 02:25 PM   #63
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Yes, you're correct, but since these parts aren't cheap. It's a waste to me when the result is the same, is all. If the issue is resolved or somewhat different, at least purchasing whatever item did something. There's still a list of things to check.

The coolant temps read fine. https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/cold-s...9-28&mark=8-23

this log shows a cold start, very first of the day. Ambient temps are around 75F and coolant temps are 68F. it was like 10am or something like that and car was in the shade.
Sensors don't always fail open or shorted, sometimes they can fail intermittently or out of calibration. So the simple way to verify in the latter case would be to substitute a known good sensor.

As for the coolant temp sensor, that looks normal to me for that ambient temperature, as it takes a while for the coolant temp to increase and catch up along with the ambient air around the car as the morning goes by while the vehicle sits.

Looking forward to seeing how it runs after it's warmed up and after the O2 sensor is reconnected.

I need to go work on my amp rack now but I'll check back in later.
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Old 09-19-2021, 05:20 PM   #64
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Sensors don't always fail open or shorted, sometimes they can fail intermittently or out of calibration. So the simple way to verify in the latter case would be to substitute a known good sensor.

As for the coolant temp sensor, that looks normal to me for that ambient temperature, as it takes a while for the coolant temp to increase and catch up along with the ambient air around the car as the morning goes by while the vehicle sits.

Looking forward to seeing how it runs after it's warmed up and after the O2 sensor is reconnected.

I need to go work on my amp rack now but I'll check back in later.

Im sure ill just use it since im going crazy trying to figure this issue ive been having. Especially since ive seen that my voltage for the upstream o2 is always pretty high. Googling what is normal voltage its like under a volt for idle. Mine is always around 2.2V?
a/f sensor #1 voltage is what im looking at, not sure if that is the correct parameter for upstream o2 voltage.

I have warmed up the car and connected the o2 plug, cleared code and startup. Some interesting things happen with LTFT.
3 different logs
1. O2 connected cleared code and startups just fine. She does eventually stall out
2. I restart it and notice LTFT is highest ive seen 25%
3. Another startup and ~20% LTFT

So LTFT doesnt really seem to stable at every startup

https://datazap.me/u/jrhudson/02-sen...-and-high-ltft


Also i have added my boost gauge line to the brake booster line(its not past the check valve, dont worry).

I saw 19-20 -inHg with everything plugged in but without the o2 connected it was around 16-17-inHg. Not sure what this indicates but its what i saw.



Amp rack? Dont know what that is but i hate doing electrical or wiring stuff.




edit: i tested my o2 sensors and they seem to be alright.



I do suspect my injectors. I think that my old stock PI i have are most likely the issue. Earlier in the day, I saw somewhere on the forums that the car on startup only uses port until the car warms up. This explains why after i shut off the car and start her up after a short period, she fires right up. I shot Zach another email asking with the logs, maybe he'll have some good insight.

Last edited by jrhudson; 09-20-2021 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 09-20-2021, 02:12 AM   #65
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oh i forgot to post this short video. I used a device that cleaned it. I only did it for a short time. Since i do think its the injectors now, I'll probably do this cleaning alot longer for each injector.

It doesnt really show in the video but i think most of the PI aren’t consistently atomizing the fuel.



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Old 09-20-2021, 10:27 AM   #66
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Testing the oxygen sensor in the way described in that video doesn't tell you whether or not it's within it's calibration. Hopefully it is.

Thoroughly cleaning your stock port injectors couldn't hurt, and would be a good, inexpensive fix if they're indeed fouling up. You should measure the amount of fuel that they flow per minute while watching the spray patterns. They should all be relatively close to each other and within the specifications set by the manufacturer. I believe you can find those values somewhere in a thread here.

I got to looking at your log that you posted the other day while the engine was idling and noticed that you were getting knocking. You should never get knocking while it's idling. That's probably what you are hearing with the engine running in the earlier video you posted. I can understand if you're getting a couple of misfire codes along with the knocking in your logs, but I didn't see any indicating to me that it's not fuel or ignition related, so its possibly mechanically related. You might want to get a hold of the guys that built your engine to show them that video and your logs.

I also noted that the rear 02 sensor was reading 255, I don't know if that's indicating a very rich condition or a very lean condition, but that's the sensor that's located after the catalytic converter, so if it's rich there, AND you're fuel trims are running +22 to +25, then the upstream O2 sensor is telling the ECU that it's running lean and adding more fuel to compensate, which is getting through the catalytic converter where the rear O2 sensor is picking up the rich condition (if that value is indeed indicating a rich condition).
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Old 09-21-2021, 05:21 PM   #67
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OP I'm wondering if you might be mixing/matching sensors or parts from different years ie pre 2017 vs 2017+ that could be throwing off the ECU. Airbox, crank sensor, fuel sensors have all been changed in 2017+ and not sure they are backwards compatible without a tune

Did IAG say if your short block is from a 2017+ core or 2013-2016 core?
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Old 09-28-2021, 01:28 AM   #68
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Testing the oxygen sensor in the way described in that video doesn't tell you whether or not it's within it's calibration. Hopefully it is.

Thoroughly cleaning your stock port injectors couldn't hurt, and would be a good, inexpensive fix if they're indeed fouling up. You should measure the amount of fuel that they flow per minute while watching the spray patterns. They should all be relatively close to each other and within the specifications set by the manufacturer. I believe you can find those values somewhere in a thread here.

I got to looking at your log that you posted the other day while the engine was idling and noticed that you were getting knocking. You should never get knocking while it's idling. That's probably what you are hearing with the engine running in the earlier video you posted. I can understand if you're getting a couple of misfire codes along with the knocking in your logs, but I didn't see any indicating to me that it's not fuel or ignition related, so its possibly mechanically related. You might want to get a hold of the guys that built your engine to show them that video and your logs.

I also noted that the rear 02 sensor was reading 255, I don't know if that's indicating a very rich condition or a very lean condition, but that's the sensor that's located after the catalytic converter, so if it's rich there, AND you're fuel trims are running +22 to +25, then the upstream O2 sensor is telling the ECU that it's running lean and adding more fuel to compensate, which is getting through the catalytic converter where the rear O2 sensor is picking up the rich condition (if that value is indeed indicating a rich condition).

I checked many other things while i was gone. Compression test. Came with very low numbers. ~ 105-115 all cylinders. That does not seem right.
I also did a leak down test. I couldn't really find anything, but leakdown percentage was over 40% each cylinder.

Furthermore, I pulled the motor again since i had no choice but to check the timing......and motor was timed correctly.


This might be the time where it heads to a shop...ugh..


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OP I'm wondering if you might be mixing/matching sensors or parts from different years ie pre 2017 vs 2017+ that could be throwing off the ECU. Airbox, crank sensor, fuel sensors have all been changed in 2017+ and not sure they are backwards compatible without a tune

Did IAG say if your short block is from a 2017+ core or 2013-2016 core?
My block is a 2013-2016 core.I'm sure of it, when i spoke with IAG the first time i asked about swapping to a 2017+ block, i ended up not doing that obviously but yes i am sure.
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Old 09-28-2021, 09:44 AM   #69
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Is there a way to bench test an ECU?
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Old 09-28-2021, 02:01 PM   #70
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I checked many other things while i was gone. Compression test. Came with very low numbers. ~ 105-115 all cylinders. That does not seem right.
I also did a leak down test. I couldn't really find anything, but leakdown percentage was over 40% each cylinder.

Furthermore, I pulled the motor again since i had no choice but to check the timing......and motor was timed correctly.

This might be the time where it heads to a shop...ugh..

My block is a 2013-2016 core.I'm sure of it, when i spoke with IAG the first time i asked about swapping to a 2017+ block, i ended up not doing that obviously but yes i am sure.
Those compression numbers aren't bad. Based on what you're saying, they're all about the same and are upwards of 100 psi. Maybe a little on the low side, but I'm not exactly sure in this case that it's a bad thing.

Sorry to hear you're going through such a headache and still haven't had a resolution. Hope it's something simple and you or the shop can quickly get to the bottom of it.
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