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Old 09-17-2021, 09:43 AM   #1023
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Not sure I understand how it will matter. If you are willing to lie for the first exemption, what is going to stop you from lying about the remainder?
Once upon a time, religion was the way health mandates were carried out. It was the only way to reach enough people. Literally written into the official rules... No pork? Yup. Not enough people cooked it right and an outright ban was the effective answer at the time.
Now? I have very few good things to say about it.
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Old 09-17-2021, 09:48 AM   #1024
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Once upon a time, religion was the way health mandates were carried out. It was the only way to reach enough people. Literally written into the official rules... No pork? Yup. Not enough people cooked it right and an outright ban was the effective answer at the time.
Now? I have very few good things to say about it.
Yea, I get the historical significance of religious rules around these things, but that's not really what I was referring to, more how the Hospital thinks that is going to change things by asking them to swear off certain other items when you know they are already invoking religion falsely.
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Old 09-17-2021, 09:52 AM   #1025
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Not sure I understand how it will matter. If you are willing to lie for the first exemption, what is going to stop you from lying about the remainder?
We ask each patient if they have any beliefs that will affect their care, so for these employees, the answer going forward will be yes, if they ever become the patient, and they will not receive many medications.

Of course they are likely lying, but some people might be genuine and unaware, so this is an educational opportunity. Still, they are lying on potentially a legal document to scapegoat a hospital rule or some law/mandate, which could be a legal problem for them like perjury.
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Old 09-17-2021, 12:05 PM   #1026
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Yea, I get the historical significance of religious rules around these things, but that's not really what I was referring to, more how the Hospital thinks that is going to change things by asking them to swear off certain other items when you know they are already invoking religion falsely.
I was just angsting over the rediculous irony of religion being used as the catch-all excuse to prop up whatever random thing with no attention at all to proper, consistent application of the reality of what the religious reason might actually require... All by anti-mandate whiners ignoring their use of a religious mandate to try to skirt another mandate...
Practitioner only at my convenience.
What a load of shit.
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:38 PM   #1027
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Meanwhile in Atlanta...

At least 18 of the 20 silverback gorillas have tested positive for COVID-19. No news on whether they had been masking or social distancing.
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:46 PM   #1028
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Meanwhile in Atlanta...

At least 18 of the 20 silverback gorillas have tested positive for COVID-19. No news on whether they had been masking or social distancing.
And twenty five zookeepers killed during the testing process
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:05 PM   #1029
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Twitter thread for the Montana press conference for one of their counties: https://twitter.com/NBCMontana/statu...10812337303562
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:33 PM   #1030
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@spike021 article mentions National Guard. We have 20 National Guard here on duty, primarily assisting with security and food services. I understand it has been a tremendous help.
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:39 PM   #1031
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Originally Posted by cjd View Post
I was just angsting over the rediculous irony of religion being used as the catch-all excuse to prop up whatever random thing with no attention at all to proper, consistent application of the reality of what the religious reason might actually require... All by anti-mandate whiners ignoring their use of a religious mandate to try to skirt another mandate...
Practitioner only at my convenience.
What a load of shit.

The whole "religious exception/exemption" stuff is long past its "sell-by" date and it time we simply do away with it. It might be interesting to hear a full blown explanation for why my belief in a deity prohibits me from getting vaccinated or baking a cake for a wedding. But the key word there is "might."

The whole "Masterpiece Cake Shop" clusterfuck was the last straw for me.
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Old 09-17-2021, 04:08 PM   #1032
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In the UK we are still seeing isolation payments extend until April 2022 so its not going away any time soon here. Isolation payments are if you get Covid you can stay at home 10 days and be paid £500, and we are now pushing forward a programme of vaccinating 12+ age groups even without parents consent in schools. The vaccine minister has said “you can go against your parents wishes if you want to be vaccinated.”

I don’t mind adults being vaccinated if they want (I have) it is the decision left to the individual, but in the UK children aged 12 cannot vote, pay tax, smoke or join the army because obviously they are a minor. But they can read the data and make an informed decision without parental consent on the vaccine?

The Office of National Statistics data (ONS)

In the UK it is recorded in a way that differs from other countries - Deaths where Covid was recorded within 28 days via a test is then placed on death certificate (even if they had Covid recorded then 2 weeks later had a car accident or other illness it is still recorded as a Covid death)

Since Feb 12th 2021 to 3rd Sept 2021 total Covid deaths in the UK

1-24 yr old 49 deaths
25-54 yr old 1682 deaths
55-64 7017 deaths
65-84 11213 deaths
85+ 8909 deaths

to me its an older persons disease…

The Western governments are stepping up to offer support to Africa and poorer nations, proud in the fact they can offer more vaccines that the next major power, but if the average age in Sudan is 19 they really don’t need the vaccine, they aren’t asking for them, and they certainly don’t seem to be dying for Covid based on W.H.O. data. If you have an ageing population you need to watch the numbers for the elderly, for everyone else it seems you just need to make and informed decision based on age and clinical needs.

I don't have any answers but from the data vaccinating 12 years old just seems to be a societal benefit and not a personal one.
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:24 PM   #1033
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But they can read the data and make an informed decision without parental consent on the vaccine?

to me its an older persons disease…
Yes. Individuals younger than the current popular age of "adulthood" absolutely can make an informed decision for their own care. Adults ignore expert advice all the time, so clearly are capable of making horrible decisions. And forcing an adolescent to be forced to the whims of a crackpot conspiracy theorist guardian is certainly not helping anyone. They should eat their broccoli!


Also, very much not an older person's disease, unless you ignore the disease and only slice a portion of outcomes from having caught it...
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:32 PM   #1034
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.ya...215600442.html
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:33 PM   #1035
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Four patients, two dialysis machines: Rationing medical care becomes a reality in hospitals overwhelmed with covid patients


https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...on-care-covid/

Beginning of article…

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Kristen Solana Walkinshaw, a physician on the coronavirus triage committee at Providence Alaska Medical Center in Anchorage, found her team last weekend making one of the most agonizing decisions of their careers. With the delta variant surging, the hospital was overwhelmed, and the doctor-on-call had paged the group for guidance.

Four patients needed continuous kidney dialysis, her colleague explained, but only two machines could be made available. How should I choose?
“This is the worst it’s been for us,” Solana Walkinshaw said, and “it’s not over.”

Rationing medical care, one of the most feared scenarios of the pandemic, is becoming a reality in a few parts of the United States as coronavirus infections remain at surge levels. On Thursday, Idaho officials announced the state was taking the extraordinary step of activating crisis standards of care statewide, giving hospitals the power to allocate — and potentially even deny — care based on the goal of who could benefit the most when faced with a shortage of resources such as ventilators, medications or staff. The decision will affect both covid and non-covid patients in a health-care system that is fraying.

In Montana, St. Peter’s Health in Helena moved into crisis standards Thursday, and Billings Clinic, the largest hospital system in the state, warned it could be next. In California’s Fresno County, the interim health officer has said the jurisdiction is at “a tipping point,” but the arrival of out-of-town nurses and medical teams helped stabilize the situation for the moment.
Hawaii’s governor on Sept. 1 signed an order releasing health-care facilities and health-care workers from liability if they have to ration health care.
“I’m scared,” Steven Nemerson, chief clinical officer of Saint Alphonsus Health System in Boise, which has run out of ICU beds, said at a news conference Thursday. “I’m scared for all of us.”

Crisis standards do not always result in rationing, but they give providers more flexibility in how they prioritize care as well as legal protection when they do. State and institution rationing plans are often based on a scoring system of how the brain, heart, kidneys, liver and other major organs are functioning to help make decisions, but they can differ enormously in their details. Many also take into account a patient’s “life stage” as a proxy for age, and some, usually as tiebreakers, look at their role in society — such as whether the patient is a health-care worker or a politician with an essential responsibility during the crisis. Last month, a critical care task force in Texas floated the idea of taking vaccination status into account — but the authors dismissed their own suggestion as a theoretical exercise following a public backlash…
Summary: Care is being rationed because of the surge.
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Old 09-17-2021, 08:38 PM   #1036
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to me its an older persons disease…
It was, but it isn't any longer, or least its trending that way. Here are number of Deaths for the state of Georgia which are readily available on this website.

Note the upswing in numbers in younger groups at the end compared to the trend overall (don't look just mid-year 2021 because we dipped way down.

Also, pay close attention to the % of deaths, which is the percentage of deaths in each month for the age group. (this was quick and dirty, but I think it makes the point of what we are seeing here)
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