follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Software Tuning

Software Tuning Discuss all software tuning topics.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-14-2021, 04:40 PM   #127
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,315
Thanks: 9,777
Thanked 8,743 Times in 3,968 Posts
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldjust View Post
Kinda. To at least attempt to be carb compliant you not modify any emissions systems. Both evap and secondary 02 are both emissions related. so tampering with them is a automatic none compliance. adding the flex fuel sensor to do so would bring us closer to get a flex fuel allowed. Then the final step would just be if any company want to sell one with a carb number to make it official. and bam!
Got it. I was just wondering if you were actually working on a carb compliant kit or just trying not to trip anything to do with EVAP readiness.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:46 PM   #128
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 230
Thanks: 3
Thanked 172 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
Got it. I was just wondering if you were actually working on a carb compliant kit or just trying not to trip anything to do with EVAP readiness.
well in its most basic form i dont want to touch any part of code that involves monitors/anything else involved with those.

straight up just flex fuel. Plus wiring will be much much easier.
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:52 PM   #129
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,815
Thanks: 8,620
Thanked 13,318 Times in 6,444 Posts
Mentioned: 932 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldjust View Post
Hi guys! ive been trying to see if i can make a CARB compliant Open source flex fuel sensor. inputs the 50hz-150hz. currently i have something that can already output a 0-5v output analog signal. and made a board that can output to canbus too. What im thinking is something that can work but i just need someone thats familiar with coding for this. I want to make it carb compliant so we cant hijack any other inputs. what i did notice here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...t=90692&page=4
Post #51 by @ztan . That the ECU have a larger amount of IDs it can get info from then from what the car can signals actually have. Ive already reversed engineered all can bus signals. I noticed that some like hex ID 0x149 or 0x14A are not actually ever transmitted within the car.

So my thought is this: IF instead of grabbing the 16 bit ram value for the 02 or evap, could it be possible of grabbing it the exact same data but from any of the bytes that come from the mailboxes of those can id packets? So the only thing really needed is replacing the ram value (theoretically ) of the routine.

This should also theoretically make it compatible with 17+ cars since if those files also have similar ID. All we need is to inject the canbus signals and those ecus will also get it to work.

Can anyone confirm or see if im heading in the right direction. Also to be clear, the hardware is done and its open. Firmware is technically done. Can be used in analog form but i want to make it carb compliant.
@steve99 if you think this is possible i can DM you for a factory tune with just FF added to it?
Open Source and CARB compliant are mutually exclusive.
CSG Mike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:55 PM   #130
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 13,815
Thanks: 8,620
Thanked 13,318 Times in 6,444 Posts
Mentioned: 932 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldjust View Post
Kinda. To at least attempt to be carb compliant you not modify any emissions systems. Both evap and secondary 02 are both emissions related. so tampering with them is a automatic none compliance. adding the flex fuel sensor to do so would bring us closer to get a flex fuel allowed. Then the final step would just be if any company want to sell one with a carb number to make it official. and bam!
This has been considered by many folks, many times, but unfortunately, the market just won't bear the cost of such a setup.

Unfortunately, getting CARB excemption is neither cheap nor fast.

Source: CSG does CARB consultation for other companies, including developing code/calibration and getting parts/vehicles through the CARB process, and has done so successfully.

PM if you want to discuss further, and I'll break down why it's likely just not really viable.
CSG Mike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:56 PM   #131
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 230
Thanks: 3
Thanked 172 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Open Source and CARB compliant are mutually exclusive.
well open source *hardware*. to make it carb compliant a company would need to go hough the steps in california. Ive worked with a company before to get something else for these cars but i know that part can be tedious. but im willing to give my work away in both designing the board and getting a rom file capable of doing so if needed.
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 04:58 PM   #132
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 230
Thanks: 3
Thanked 172 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
This has been considered by many folks, many times, but unfortunately, the market just won't bear the cost of such a setup.

Unfortunately, getting CARB excemption is neither cheap nor fast.

Source: CSG does CARB consultation for other companies, including developing code/calibration and getting parts/vehicles through the CARB process, and has done so successfully.

PM if you want to discuss further, and I'll break down why it's likely just not really viable.
oh! so yeah looks like you've gone through all this work too then. but anyways it will be free for any company to be up for it. if they want it.

well first step i want to even check if its possible to even add the sensor via canbus. based on what ive seen in the asm code. if its not possible i guess i still have the hardware open for anyone to use.

EDIT: @CSG Mike you may be right so i will just calll my project "canbus enabled" Flex fuel sensor then. im trying to look for a Proof of Concept...
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2021, 05:33 PM   #133
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,315
Thanks: 9,777
Thanked 8,743 Times in 3,968 Posts
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Open Source and CARB compliant are mutually exclusive.
I wouldn't call it mutually exclusive. More like financially irresponsible

I haven't had to do vehicle emission testing, just component. It gets stupid expensive really quick.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 12:12 AM   #134
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,121
Thanks: 156
Thanked 762 Times in 468 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So what @geraldjust is trying to do, is what I was interested in doing a few pages back: wanting to find an alternate way to connect the flex-fuel ethanol content signal to the ECU so that we don't have to hijack the O2, evap pressure sensor, or MAF sensor, and so that the kit will not make the vehicle emissions non-compliant within the US. Post #93 https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...t=94751&page=7

I believe the possibility of successfully completing this could be the BASIS for any other third party to come in and go through the proper procedures to make the kit CARB compliant.

Basically, he wants to see if he can actually get it to work properly, not really get it CARB certified at the moment.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 02:29 AM   #135
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 230
Thanks: 3
Thanked 172 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
So what @geraldjust is trying to do, is what I was interested in doing a few pages back: wanting to find an alternate way to connect the flex-fuel ethanol content signal to the ECU so that we don't have to hijack the O2, evap pressure sensor, or MAF sensor, and so that the kit will not make the vehicle emissions non-compliant within the US. Post #93 https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...t=94751&page=7

I believe the possibility of successfully completing this could be the BASIS for any other third party to come in and go through the proper procedures to make the kit CARB compliant.

Basically, he wants to see if he can actually get it to work properly, not really get it CARB certified at the moment.
yup 100% trying to see if its possible in the first place. but by the looks of it i think it can be done. i know it would require a bit more on the input signal to do so as we translate it to can but i know that part can be done. Im have worked with a company in the past to get something though CARB and i know its a pain in the add and alot of money. my goal i guess is to have a proof of concept it can even be done. And if i company want to use the knowledge to make a kit. Cool i will even design their board if they want haha. This kind of thing has been done before : https://www.cobbtuning.com/nissan-gtr-can-gateway/
So im sure it can be adapted. i just would need someone who's familiar with the assembly code in this ecu to work with.
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 11:34 AM   #136
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,121
Thanks: 156
Thanked 762 Times in 468 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldjust View Post
yup 100% trying to see if its possible in the first place. but by the looks of it i think it can be done. i know it would require a bit more on the input signal to do so as we translate it to can but i know that part can be done. Im have worked with a company in the past to get something though CARB and i know its a pain in the add and alot of money. my goal i guess is to have a proof of concept it can even be done. And if i company want to use the knowledge to make a kit. Cool i will even design their board if they want haha. This kind of thing has been done before : https://www.cobbtuning.com/nissan-gtr-can-gateway/
So im sure it can be adapted. i just would need someone who's familiar with the assembly code in this ecu to work with.

Yeah, I am of the mindset that ANYTHING can be achieved if you invest the proper time and resources. With the help of one other member here, I solved the problem of poor audio quality in the '19-'20 86 with the Harman head units a few months back, but coding is beyond my skills. However, I am with you that this idea is plausible.

All of the current flex-fuel kits have the one downside to them that you must hijack one of the three existing sensor inputs which pretty much renders your vehicle illegal for public road use.

Are you considering using one of the existing kits which outputs a 0 to 5-volt signal, taking that signal and converting it to a signal that you're needing for your project, or are you starting out with a completely different signal altogether?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 04:34 PM   #137
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 230
Thanks: 3
Thanked 172 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
Yeah, I am of the mindset that ANYTHING can be achieved if you invest the proper time and resources. With the help of one other member here, I solved the problem of poor audio quality in the '19-'20 86 with the Harman head units a few months back, but coding is beyond my skills. However, I am with you that this idea is plausible.

All of the current flex-fuel kits have the one downside to them that you must hijack one of the three existing sensor inputs which pretty much renders your vehicle illegal for public road use.

Are you considering using one of the existing kits which outputs a 0 to 5-volt signal, taking that signal and converting it to a signal that you're needing for your project, or are you starting out with a completely different signal altogether?
Exactly. And oh no, i already made a board that inputs a traditional 50-150hz and out put a 0-5v signal. i can program it to .5-4.5v all that is easy. i even made it to output via CANBUS. So i can set whatever id , or format the data however i want. 8 bit wide or 16 bit. etc... its unlimitedly configurable. i even reversed engineered the whole can network. Because of this i know their are some IDs that the roms still read into ram, BUT the ecus dont do anything with them. and in the current cars, those ID are not used. so this means if the rom if programmed properly it can be done.
My theory is that originally how this thread looks like they read the ram value . but instead of doing so from the evap / o2 16bit data. I can just point the ram value to whatever ID/data byte we want.

EDIT: so yes it can do the traditional 0-5. but that will be more to diagnose. But my goal is to still have it canbus enabled.
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2021, 06:27 PM   #138
FR-S2GT86
"I don't know."
 
FR-S2GT86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: Was '15 FR-S, 6MT, Now '15 GT86
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 1,121
Thanks: 156
Thanked 762 Times in 468 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by geraldjust View Post
Exactly. And oh no, i already made a board that inputs a traditional 50-150hz and out put a 0-5v signal. i can program it to .5-4.5v all that is easy. i even made it to output via CANBUS. So i can set whatever id , or format the data however i want. 8 bit wide or 16 bit. etc... its unlimitedly configurable. i even reversed engineered the whole can network. Because of this i know their are some IDs that the roms still read into ram, BUT the ecus dont do anything with them. and in the current cars, those ID are not used. so this means if the rom if programmed properly it can be done.
My theory is that originally how this thread looks like they read the ram value . but instead of doing so from the evap / o2 16bit data. I can just point the ram value to whatever ID/data byte we want.

EDIT: so yes it can do the traditional 0-5. but that will be more to diagnose. But my goal is to still have it canbus enabled.

I don't see that this company has any specific experience with the FA-20 engines or the twins platform, but it appears that they have plenty of experience with the CAN BUS of some of the other Subaru engines out there. You might give them a call to inquire with your project.

https://www.iwireservices.com/

https://www.iwireservices.com/blog/categories/diy
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.ac View Post
My pubes are shaped like the number 86. There for I知 car. Derp
Count to muffens and call again.
I知 40. So....... say hi to your sisters or daughters.
FR-S2GT86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 10:57 AM   #139
Jaden
Road-hole
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2013 Whiteout FR-S
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
Posts: 1,080
Thanks: 234
Thanked 441 Times in 281 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
It's unbelievably ridiculous....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86 View Post
So what @geraldjust is trying to do, is what I was interested in doing a few pages back: wanting to find an alternate way to connect the flex-fuel ethanol content signal to the ECU so that we don't have to hijack the O2, evap pressure sensor, or MAF sensor, and so that the kit will not make the vehicle emissions non-compliant within the US. Post #93 https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...t=94751&page=7

I believe the possibility of successfully completing this could be the BASIS for any other third party to come in and go through the proper procedures to make the kit CARB compliant.

Basically, he wants to see if he can actually get it to work properly, not really get it CARB certified at the moment.
It's unbelievably ridiculous that making your car burn cleaner makes it non-compliant.

The whole country needs to go to sniffer test only... Commufornia is absolutely pathetic in its attempt at totalitarian control.

Jaden
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jaden For This Useful Post:
FR-S2GT86 (09-22-2021)
Old 09-24-2021, 11:37 PM   #140
geraldjust
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Drives: MR2, Sliver BRZ
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 230
Thanks: 3
Thanked 172 Times in 79 Posts
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
It's unbelievably ridiculous that making your car burn cleaner makes it non-compliant.

The whole country needs to go to sniffer test only... Commufornia is absolutely pathetic in its attempt at totalitarian control.

Jaden
its not a california thing. Although i agree about E85 in general that sentiment. i do believe smog test and emissions are a important for the country and the world in general. Thats why we moved from leaded gas to unleaded, why we banned certain detergents in fuels too. Not just for the health of the "environment" but for actual people. Anyone who has asma would know that the have a really bad time when their around a catless car.. etc.. pipe sniffers are not only more expensive and that gets passed on to the consumer. When doing a dino/tail test they need to also have a special gas needed that can get very expensive. Simple and cheap solutions to see if the if the efficiency of a cat for it, OBD2 testing was a huge win for the consumer and the little guys as cars became more powerful/computerized that more complicated computers to read any problems with cars. Not only because anyone can use normal tools to pull most data from the car, but you can tell many things for repairing or even flashing cars.

Other states emission may vary too. Remember freedom is only freedom until your actions affect others. At that point freedom will always have some restrictions. Its just a fact of life in general.
__________________
Always looking to tinker with something..
geraldjust is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Open Source Electric Supercharger neutron256 Forced Induction 913 08-22-2021 05:16 PM
Open source Over Boost Fuel Cut ztan Software Tuning 17 07-06-2018 02:16 AM
open source software question GeeTee86 AFRICA 15 02-15-2015 06:52 PM
The Retrofit Source summer open house! soundman98 Southeast 0 06-23-2014 08:41 PM
ECUtek Flex Fuel REVOLUTION: World's First Flex Fuel Factory ECU GTR - BRZ soon! Visconti Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 356 05-20-2013 09:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.