Dyno Numbers

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Seems like Japan gets additional infotainment choices.
The blank option, a larger touch screen that takes up all the bezel, and I think theres a double-din non-integrated unit.

I haver noticed that they use a different head unit part in the JDM models (and I kind of prefer it tbh as its makes the car seem that little bit more premium inside), but I haven't seen anywhere that its an optional.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by FlyingJett

Xmm.. is it a right time to look at GR Yaris ?)

If you want AWD then for sure!, although it might be worth waiting for the new WRX and STI to compare.

But do you really want AWD?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by austintampa

not when emissions is the goal.

my ecoboost mustang would ping on sudden low RPM application of throttle - I dont assume that to be a rich condition.

This dip has been a point of contention for 8 years now and it apparently still exsits. No data log has ever shows ping from running lean at WOT as the cause..

[OwlDance]

The only thing this suggests to me is that the torque dip has always been an overblown issue as a result of people fixating on it via dynos considering literally no reviewer mentioned it in the early reviews based on feel alone.

I'm also 99% sure it has everything to do with emissions and catalytic warmup processes. An early article discussed the FA20 moving back the CC back a some CM or so compared to the Impreza FB20 while maintaining faster warmups. This, coincided with the fact that the Ace 350 sees the largest peak gains in the middle of the torque curve because of its long, catless runner length suggests to me that there's nothing that can be done about it OEM wise without massively compromising emissions and critical warmup emissions.

But I'm sure it's barely an issue anyways. I don't have an issue stock on the 2 liter, it's going to be even less of an issue on the 2.4 liter. As said by numerous people here before, the torque dip is either barely more than a brief passing moment in a low gear, or you're otherwise lugging the car in too tall of a gear where you should be downshifting to begin with.

[austintampa]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

This dip has been a point of contention for 8 years now and it apparently still exsits. No data log has ever shows ping from running lean at WOT as the cause..

well im not as book learnt as other people with their fancy equations and maths to understand why a car can have torques and then have that fall off and then make torques again.

[Baldeagle]

Only a test drive will confirm our speculations. But to add to our speculation, I threw together a very quick spreadsheet to show speed in gears and different shift points. In my current 2.0T-6MT car, for normal daily driving I use 2,500 rpm shift points with no problems. And that’s pretty much off boost.

If we use a 3,500 rpm shift point (or less) it appears we will enter the next gear in the low to mid 2,000 rpm range, right in the “pre-dip” sweet spot. That might prove fine for daily driving. If we are concerned about avoiding the dip when driving faster, it seems we’ll need to use a 6,000 rpm shift point, except for first gear. To enter second gear above 4,500 rpm we need at 7,500 rpm shift point from 1st gear.

This may not be a major issue. Even if we do spend time near the 4,200 rpm dip, if it still has a fair amount of torque, it may not be irritating.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Blighty

If you want AWD then for sure!, although it might be worth waiting for the new WRX and STI to compare.

But do you really want AWD?

30% front / 70% rear in sport mode. They still look like fun, clip only a little less than 2 1/2 mins, worth a look.

[slimfit]

I’d sell organs to own a GR Yaris, but it’ll never come to the states in that form. A bloated Corolla with a 3 cylinder is DOA.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by ZDan

?????

You're repeating exactly the same point: *glad* there's a torque dip because that means you can spend time and $$$$ and effort to eradicate it (while making car illegal).

How on earth is that *better* than simply not having a torque dip (or having a more minimal one) in the 1st place?

I'd way way WAY rather see torque/power curves more similar to the graphs on the info screen we've seen...

Well, maybe for you. But I can't see why you can't see my (our) point.
I know what the numbers are (at least claimed) already for the 2022.
I know that they are probably pretty similar to what I have on my 2020 with two/three simple mods (OFT Tune/e85/catless header).
I know that I like what I have but would like a little more.
I know that I am likely to get a 2022 at some point.
I don't have any issues with spending the relatively small amount of money/time doing these same three things to the 2022 and I don't care if someone says its possibly illegal and/or voids the warranty.
THEREFORE:
I am happy to see that it APPEARS as if the engineers at Toyaburu ran into some of the same issues they ran into with the FA20 and had to make compromises in order to meet emissions/MPG issues and therefore did not ring every ounce of available power out in their factory tune and that gains similar to those available on the FA20 per above will likely be available on the 2022.

I respect the fact that you may not want to do tune/header/e85 and that's fine. But I am more than willing to do it.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OwlDance

The only thing this suggests to me is that the torque dip has always been an overblown issue as a result of people fixating on it via dynos considering literally no reviewer mentioned it in the early reviews based on feel alone.

You really can't be serious. Stock my 2020 felt like I was hitting a wall when I ran into the torque dip. I mean, I could literally feel myself moving forward in my seat. I personally don't see how anybody could drive it that way for very long...

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by OwlDance

The only thing this suggests to me is that the torque dip has always been an overblown issue as a result of people fixating on it via dynos considering literally no reviewer mentioned it in the early reviews based on feel alone.

I'm also 99% sure it has everything to do with emissions and catalytic warmup processes. An early article discussed the FA20 moving back the CC back a some CM or so compared to the Impreza FB20 while maintaining faster warmups. This, coincided with the fact that the Ace 350 sees the largest peak gains in the middle of the torque curve because of its long, catless runner length suggests to me that there's nothing that can be done about it OEM wise without massively compromising emissions and critical warmup emissions.

But I'm sure it's barely an issue anyways. I don't have an issue stock on the 2 liter, it's going to be even less of an issue on the 2.4 liter. As said by numerous people here before, the torque dip is either barely more than a brief passing moment in a low gear, or you're otherwise lugging the car in too tall of a gear where you should be downshifting to begin with.

That's because they are almost always on a track.

On the street, in say third gear needing to accelerate, you could always feel it fall flat on it face for a few then pick back up noticeably.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

You really can't be serious. Stock my 2020 felt like I was hitting a wall when I ran into the torque dip. I mean, I could literally feel myself moving forward in my seat. I personally don't see how anybody could drive it that way for very long...

Obviously a little exaggerated there... I felt like it was fine, and I certainly never moved forward in my seat lol. Just didn't have more pickup. would hit the dip and all of a sudden the acceleration felt flat and no different than prior to the dip (that's because power is flat in this region).

The one neat thing with the dip, I always thought, was the acceleration you would feel right as the torque starts to rise again, because at this point the power began to rise much quicker than at any other point in the powerband.

One thing that actually destroyed this feeling was putting in a header and tune. It was certainly quicker I recall, but the acceleration never felt like it did during that torque increase out of the dip. Instead it's just a gradual increase through the powerband.

Anyways, all that is just feels. It's obviously not ideal, in any case, to have the dip. But as I said earlier, I'm really not worried about the torque dip in the new gen as the whole torque curve is a good bit higher now, to the point that the lowest point of the dip is around the highest point of gen1's torque peak.

[trippinbillies40]

Actual image of CincyJohn hitting the torque dip while gently accelerating.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

The one neat thing with the dip, I always thought, was the acceleration you would feel right as the torque starts to rise again, because at this point the power began to rise much quicker than at any other point in the powerband.

My friend with an ap2 s2000 and I joke that it’s Subaru’s VTEC lol.