FA20 NA - how easy to wake up the engine and add “character”?

[Maxhouse97]

About right TommyW I have thought Elise too, but am thinking a bit fragile for the track, quirky, and super expensive to fix body panels in addition to getting in and out of.

Tcoat also agree with you. This was the center of my question, although I’m encouraged by a couple of the responses here. I had LWFWs on other cars and they do seem to make a big difference.

How’s do the post 2017 changes effect the engine relative to what we are talking here? Difference or hardly noticeable?

I am impressed by the community here ... big factor for me as well.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

About right TommyW I have thought Elise too, but am thinking a bit fragile for the track, quirky, and super expensive to fix body panels in addition to getting in and out of.

Tcoat also agree with you. This was the center of my question, although I’m encouraged by a couple of the responses here. I had LWFWs on other cars and they do seem to make a big difference.

How’s do the post 2017 changes effect the engine relative to what we are talking here? Difference or hardly noticeable?

I am impressed by the community here ... big factor for me as well.

I had a 14 FRS and now have a 20 86. The engine changes are not even noticeable other than I have never had crickets. What is noticeable is the changed final drive ratio. The 86 has a slightly better jump off the line. It doesn't all of a sudden turn into a Hellcat or anything but it is a very slight improvement. The trade off is a minor reduction in highway mileage but is small and worth it.
The best bang for the buck is to get a tune that does away with the factory compromises they are forced to have due to emissions and mileage requirements. Some say a header is needed but the car already has a header so changing to a different one is not going to net you much "improvement". Will make it sound cooler though!
Some of the other things mentioned will change how the car feels and maybe make it marginally "faster" but it will still be a 2 lite ... ahhh you get that point by now!

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by therealstoly

I sometimes sit here in disbelief at how tolerant this forum/community is. Try joining any other forum for any other platform just to ask a question that has been answered, debated, and otherwise discussed for nearly a decade and see how that pans out...

Address the air in and out of the engine, add a tune, and there you have it.

I picked a 2020 BRZ over several other options, including the ND, for a variety of reasons that I don't often see mentioned. I've had three Miatae and other Mazdas and couldn't bear to have another Mazda I had to argue with every single time I fire it up.

I would argue that the BRZ is the rawest driver car you can get in 2020. The Mazda consistently thought it could outdrive me between lane assist, which was worthless, adaptive cruise control, which was problematic, et al. If you want a car you drive, the BRZ is about as close as you can get to the 'good ole days' with a factory warranty. A now mandated rear view camera, which I'm a proponent of, ABS, airbags, and that's really about it. It doesn't have a heads up display, yell at me, and in the case of Mazda, vibrate and jerk the wheel every time it confuses itself as onramps turn into interstates with the sun at an angle.

It's a driver's car without a lot of the nonsense that needs just a little help with its lung capacity from the factory. And I would also tout the community that the BRZ has in comparison to any other forum I've been a part of.

I've owned an NA, speed 3, two speed 6's, Mazda 3, cx5 and cx9 and I never had reliability issues that I didn't cause (supercharging, big turbo etc).

Consumer reports seems to agree that Mazda is currently more reliable than subaru and is led only by toyota/lexus.

You can also disable lane assist.

In regards to it just being a two liter NA engine, in my experience this car actually picks up a fair bit of power for an NA car from easy mods. A header and tune can net ~25-30 whp and add e85 for another 10 or 15. NA cars typically don't make much more power with mods.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

What adds character to a NA engine? A flat torque curve? This I would say is more of a turbo thing. A rev up to 8000 rpm? Too difficult to be achieved in this engine. Much more power? Then I am afraid that you'll need to go FI and you lose the NA aspect. Maybe adding just sound? It depends on user priorities and the term 'character' is a different thing for different people.

For me adding character is all the small things that you can add up to make the car a bit better, but in this case I would say to not focus just on the engine. In fact, the engine might be an area that you should focus the least. Especially, if you want to stay legal with emissions and you have an environmental awareness. CSG Mike gave an example of other areas like a light clutch assembly.

yes in Calif at least, a header and tune won’t pass emissions so every 2 years you have to return to stock for smog testing

[bcj]

The only detriment for the twins are the bench racers who have never driven one all shouting "MORE POWER!!!!!!".

It goes fine for what it is. Momentum over 1/16mi digs.
2 or 1.6 stock engines are not normally drag race champions.

They've done just fine over the years of Monte Carlo rallys, routinely beating much heavier cars with giant engines.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by bcj

The only detriment for the twins are the bench racers who have never driven one all shouting "MORE POWER!!!!!!".

Correct. It depends what you want the car for. Some of the kids that just want a stoplight racer that will never see the track should buy something else.

My philosophy on the track is a monkey can push a gas pedal on the straights. If you're a driver then the straights are just a wait period for the next turn.

If you're a track driver and just want the thrill of speed on a long straight and see turns as things that are just in the way before the next straight then get a different car.

What is that saying? Something like "Straights are for fast cars and turns are for fast drivers"?

[gen3v8]

I have a 2018 ts that was e85 tuned with a Q300 catback and it was OK. The PSR UEL header install was next,uel for sound. This, now final power(LOL) mod, really had the most noticeable effect on the cars pick up. It pulls better from 2k all the way ro 6.75 then gives a surprising surge to 7.5k. Placebo?, sound? You can`t hear it with the windows up after 2nd except for that sound tube thing that must go.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by alphasaur

I've owned an NA, speed 3, two speed 6's, Mazda 3, cx5 and cx9 and I never had reliability issues that I didn't cause (supercharging, big turbo etc).

Consumer reports seems to agree that Mazda is currently more reliable than subaru and is led only by toyota/lexus.

You can also disable lane assist.

In regards to it just being a two liter NA engine, in my experience this car actually picks up a fair bit of power for an NA car from easy mods. A header and tune can net ~25-30 whp and add e85 for another 10 or 15. NA cars typically don't make much more power with mods.

How do you figure you can get 25-30 with a header and tune? Maybe 10 or 15. The bigger possible gain is the E5 but that is not an option for everybody.

[gen3v8]

E5? Our Shitty fuel is E10. Going to run the E85 out of mine and try the 98 seen as I did not run it first

[nikitopo]

@bcj Lol! I like your pic. @Tcoat ?

[Turdinator]

It could be argued that engines with character usually have lumpy torque curves. The flat torque curve people look for tends to be boring. Engines with vtec style setups or turbos that boost suddenly tend to feel more fun as you have to keep them in the sweet spot and the transition from low torque to high is exhilarating.

I suspect if Toyota/Subaru had tuned the fa20 to not have it low rpm torque and just been flat until ~4.5k where it currently comes out of the torque dip more people would like it’s feel

[pallen]

I have a 2017 86. I did the headers, flexfuel and a tune. It makes a difference and I’m pretty happy with the car now. It’s not a night and day kind of difference like a turbo or other FI, but it’s a solid bump in feel and I don’t feel like I’ve done anything to hurt reliability of the car much. This is still not a “fast car” that the stoplight racers would be proud of. The next mod is tires. My car came with some brand new, terrible tires and I’m to cheap to just replace them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gen3v8

E5? Our Shitty fuel is E10. Going to run the E85 out of mine and try the 98 seen as I did not run it first

typo

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How do you figure you can get 25-30 with a header and tune? Maybe 10 or 15. The bigger possible gain is the E5 but that is not an option for everybody.

Stock dynos 165ish and header and tune dyno is the lower 190/upper 180s from what I have seen

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=224
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130575


Here's a link I googled quickly which seems to corroborate it, dunno? That's pretty consistent with most of the numbers I've seen. Maybe I'm wrong? Feel free to post evidence.