Went test drive a BRZ. Have a few questions

[rubberhammer]

Hello All,

New member here and first post. I have been thinking about getting a brz limited for awhile so I decided to act upon it.

So recently I've been testdriving a few brz here and there (couple new ones from the dealer)

When I first drove the brz at the dealer, the car felt really smooth and shifting was butter. I could really feel the car was pulling above 4K RPM. The pull felt just as strong as my Honda v6.

So I decided to testdrive a slightly used one (around 10k miles from a private seller). First thing I noticed is clunking feeling when I shift into 1st gear. It would go away after the first shift. Then the clunking thing would come back if you leave the car in neutral for a few seconds.

Second thing I noticed is from 2nd gear to 3rd gear, 3rd to 4th; I could feel the transmission and drive shaft were shaking/shifting as I shift. Not sure how to describe that feeling, but it was very jerky when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. And the car doesn't pull as strong as the new ones that I drove at the dealer.

This testdrive experience from the slight used BRZ totally made me hating driving a manual because of the jerkiness from 2nd to 3rd (it make it seems like the driveshaft is about to break and fall off). and that makes me wonder if all BRZs do that after it has been driven for some times.

I also noticed the cricket noise from the engine bay after I popped the hood.

So my questions for you guys are:

Do all BRZs do that after it has been driven for awhile regardless of the driving styles?

Should I be concerned about the issues that I mentioned above when buying a slightly used one?

Reason for buying used is it makes more financial sense as I don't have to take a big hit on the drive-off-the-lot depreciation. But there might be trade-offs such as above...

[suaveflooder]

Where are you located?

Clunk is normal. As far as the jerky-ness, that will get better with time…it's the driver, not the car. The clutch enguages pretty high up and that seems to throw a lot of poeple off.

As far as pull, the car has a dip right in the middle of the RPM range. Maybe you were just more aware of it on the used ones, but once again….normal. It can be fixed, but I agree, it's annoying.

These are all kinda characteristics of the car. It might not be a good fit for you. Take a step back from the hype and how it looks and really think if you are okay with these little querks. The car has A LOT of them. Honestly, it's why I fell in love with her,lol. Go figure.

[gramicci101]

Mine does not feel clunky when I shift. However, the OEM trans and diff bushings are rather floppy and flex a lot. Whiteline makes inserts for all of them that tighten things up nicely. Plus, I put better fluid in both.

The crickets are a feature of the high pressure fuel pump. Some people never get them, some people do. I did, then I put 2oz TC-W3 two stroke oil per tank and now it idles smoothly and quietly.

Whether you buy new or used is up to you. I bought new because the dealer had awesome finance deals and because I needed a treat after a large number of genuinely shitty years. The depreciation was worth it because I'm not trading it in any time soon and I got a car how I wanted it, instead of what was available.

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

Take a step back from the hype and how it looks and really think if you are okay with these little querks. The car has A LOT of them. Honestly, it's why I fell in love with her,lol. Go figure.

Amen.

[extrashaky]

I just hit 15K miles, and mine has never run better. The engine pulls fine, and the clutch and transmission smoothed out considerably after several thousand miles. Mine has gotten better with time, not worse.

You can't really be sure what has been done with the used one you drove. If the previous owner had modified it, taking it back to stock to sell could have the computer confused and trying to relearn the stock components. They also might have put the wrong fuel in it. I wouldn't consider one dog representative of all BRZs.

The one thing you'll probably have to learn to live with is the crickets. There is no 100% reliable fix. That chirping is just the sound a high pressure fuel pump makes and doesn't indicate that anything is mechanically wrong with the car.

[rubberhammer]

Thank for the quick responses guys!
@suaveflooder, I am located in the bay area!

I didn't feel the jerkiness when driving the new ones.Maybe you are right about being more aware. but it really bothers me haha.
@gramicci101, I have read about putting different fluid helps with the clunk. As for the cricket, Im not bothered by it, just want to point it out.
@extrashaky, you're right about one off BRZ doesnt represent the whole.

But ever since that test drive and felt the torque dip, I have second thought about getting this car. But I would definately testdrive a couple more to see what it brings me

[suaveflooder]

I have a short throw and new fluids (Motul). The "clunk" is pretty noticable when cold, but when the car up it goes away

[mothespaceman]

Congrats dude! I remember when I first drove my car home from the dealer, it's one of the greatest drives in the world.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by rubberhammer

First thing I noticed is clunking feeling when I shift into 1st gear. It would go away after the first shift. Then the clunking thing would come back if you leave the car in neutral for a few seconds.

I didn't read carefully the first time and missed this. The clunk going into first gear is normal. Here's what's happening:

When you are sitting in neutral with your foot off the clutch, the clutch is engaged with the flywheel on the engine so that the input shaft of the transmission is spinning. Since the transmission is in neutral, that spinning is not being transmitted to the output shaft.

When you push in the clutch pedal, you disconnect the input shaft from the flywheel. But if the transmission bearings are good, the input shaft will continue to spin for several seconds. If you shift into first gear while the input shaft is still spinning, you connect the input and output shafts (through the gears), and suddenly there is rotational force applied to the output shaft. That's the clunk. It usually sounds like it's coming from behind you because the rotational force is transferred to the output shaft and drive shaft and doesn't stop until it hits the rear end.

There's no need to avoid the clunk, but if you want to anyway you can simply hold the clutch in for several seconds before shifting into first gear. That allows the input shaft to bleed off the inertia that is keeping it spinning. The reason you only hear it on the first shift into first is that, as long as you keep pressing the clutch pedal, the input shaft has not started spinning again. If you put the car back in neutral and let off the clutch, it will spin up and do it again.

This is by no means the only vehicle that does that. I drove a 20 ton truck that did it, and that thing made a loud metallic clank that would make people turn and look.

Also, regarding the much maligned torque dip, it really doesn't hamper my enjoyment of the car. What you'll feel is a slight dip in the torque curve between 3500 and 4500 RPM, then a kick in the pants somewhere above 4000 RPM as the fuel system switches over primarily to direct injection. That can be remedied by buying a tune that better manages that transition, but honestly I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like the engine stalls. It just momentarily doesn't pull as hard as it makes the change. During "spirited" driving I usually just keep my RPM up to stay in the upper power curve.

[cjd]

This car isn't one you purchase for its pull off the line - though it's reasonably good once you get past 4k. You buy this car because it induces giggles as you corner - its prowess and stability in the handling department. Yes, it'd sure be nice if it had more power (as noted, the dip is the right header and a tune away from being completely eliminated.) If you're coming from a 6cyl (even a Honda) you'll be adjusting to less torque down low, so it's a more dramatic difference. That doesn't speak to the differences felt between the two cars.

On the transmission - it seems a couple things can make it better or worse. Temperature certainly matters - was there a difference when you drove the two cars? One sitting in the sun all day, or different times of day, or... Also, a fluid change seems to help a lot of people (and some changes make the temperature sensitivity worse,) and in a used car you don't know what's in that transmission - how fresh, or even what oil. That said, it's a slightly ornery transmission - perhaps a different used vehicle hasn't been abused where this one was.

If you're noting a lot of shudder on shift, it may be a worn clutch, technique, or both. I was definitely very rough on my shifts for the first few days as I got used to the car. It's not an auto, and if your Honda V6 has the auto, IIRC that's a particularly smooth shifting unit (though I pay very little attention to Honda in general.) Either way, it's definitely not likely to pull the car apart.

I don't have many miles on mine to know how it ages, but it really sounds like that particular used vehicle is not one to buy. If it had been clumsily drifted by a previous owner, it could lead to many of your observed traits.

[sshole]

42k+ miles here. 1st gear clunk from neutral has happened forever. Gear changes are also wonky due to short gear ratios. I have changed transmission and differential fluid and it still clunks and has rough shifts, although the rough shifts are mostly my fault for not really caring about how smooth I shift.

Crickets are a feature on every BRZ and FR-S. Get used to them.

As for the "pull" of the new vs used, it's probably in your head. They're all slow in a straight line.

[ZionsWrath]

Clunk from a stop is normal. If you wait a second with the clutch depressed it wont clunk putting it in gear.

Second gear hard to get into is normal when cold. Double clutch helps. Shouldn't happen when warm.

Gear to gear shift causing "shaking" sounds like user error. As others have said the high engagement is awkward especially if coming from a Honda MT.

Crickets are normal.

Less pull on the used one? I dunno maybe you have a heavy passenger? Not much power to work with so weight could be a factor there. If not and the clutch isn't slipping I would think it is some kind of placebo.

Good luck in your search, hope to see you on here as an owner

[ashtray]

The car will never pull like a V6 Honda - I know as my wife has a TL. It'll still scoot but it's not fast, and you can't shoot the gap when you want to like in cars with a bunch of torque. You have to learn to drive the car differently - which might mean slower which would seem counter intuitive of buying a sports car.

New vs used will play in more if you plan to keep the car a long time. Buying new is the way to go if you want to keep it 8-10 years, and you'll know how it was driven every mile on the odometer. Buying used will be a lower price but carries the risk of being either abused by original owner or the car having a history that you don't know about.

[swpbrz]

The transmission takes about ten minutes at the start of the day to be smooth for me. you might have test drove a nrz at the dealer that was already warmed up.