Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Pug]

Originally Posted by fenton

If there hasnt been any FRS's on this dyno make sure you get a base line by slapping the stock intake back on for a quick run.

I'll have to use Perrin's inlet hose instead, I don't have the plug left from the stock hose to re-attach it.

I don't need to re-flash the tune, do I? I can just keep Toma's tune without the compressor installed?

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Pug

I'll have to use Perrin's inlet hose instead, I don't have the plug left from the stock hose to re-attach it.

I don't need to re-flash the tune, do I? I can just keep Toma's tune without the compressor installed?

Ya his works perfect without the charger. I've run it many times on the dyno. Its basically a stage 1 tune when not in boost.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[Pug]

Alright! Joe at Goodspeed Performance of Scottsdale, AZ did the dyno runs himself. There were a few things that can be improved next time I get on the dyno, but I got the charts @bfrank1972 and @fenton asked for.

The dynometer in use is a MAHA LPS 3000 PKW; this is the first MAHA test of the Phantom FTS.

All pictures link to larger sizes.

First up, here is the baseline, a stage 1 tune NA-only, the charger was detached and replaced with Perrin's inlet hose. For this run, the hood was up and the supercharger was waiting dejectedly on the floor for its turn.




The NA run produced this graph, showing 151 WHP @ 6960 RPM and 123 ft-lb @ 6430 RPM, which when overlaid with a graph from Toni's ECUTek flashes is pretty normal for a stage 1 NA car.

Baseline Naturally Aspirated, Stage 1 Tune

Then I reinstalled the supercharger. This was a matter of great fascination; these guys had seen electric superchargers before and only had heard of one that generated power, but had never seen one.


I switched the Arm switch to OFF so that the FTS was not operational, and just being an airflow restriction as @bfrank1972 asked. There is no DR when the system is disarmed, it's just in the way. Unsurprisingly, that sucked, dropping max to 129 WHP and 108 lb-ft.

FTS System manually disabled, showing it restricting airflow when disarmed

Then came the fun. We reset the ECU and turned the FTS back on.



We had some minor inconsistencies in the SC runs as we fiddled with when to go WOT, and that had some effect on what RPM we obtained maximum torque. This first run is my favorite, and the one that made Joe agree that the FTS really worked. Went WOT at 2400 RPM. 182 WHP @ 7135 RPM and 149 lb-ft @ 5375 RPM.

This run vs the NA run:
WHP: +20% peak, +36% @ 4300 RPM
Torque: +22% peak, +36% @ 4300 RPM

System enabled, FTS producing boost from 2400 RPM

So that's exciting. When we went WOT a little later, about 2800 RPM we got a somewhat different graph. Power fell off a bit at the top end earlier than expected; that's being looked at, but check out what the torque does! This run, WOT at 2800 RPM, has 176 WHP @ 6320 RPM and 164 lb-ft @ 4325 RPM.

This run vs the NA run:
WHP: +16% peak, +64% @ 4300 RPM
Torque: +33% peak, +59% @ 4300 RPM

System enabled, FTS producing boost from 2800 RPM

The other runs we had were extremely similar; the whole system was entirely repeatable, with the only variable being when we went WOT.

During testing the compressor got to 70 C and the controller to 55 C, but never got higher. Ambient was about 26 C. All of the FTS runs were done with the hood down and with a fan blowing. The Perrin tube NA run was done with the hood up.

Next time Joe wants to tap the DR tube to input boost pressure into the dyno; I'll have to be prepared to datalog from BRZedit too.

As is, the Goodspeed Performance guys are interested in selling Rob's kit, too!

[fenton]

Great results. When you reset the ecu did you let it idle for 5 minutes? Its always important to do that or the car won't act the way that it should. One time I reset the ecu and then tried to go wot right away and it wasn't happy.

Regardless you are getting very good gains on the base map super safe tune. Anyone who wants a little more will be able to dial in the Afr and timing given their local gas quality.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[fenton]

You can also pull boost off the brake boost or a T in the pcv like that connects to the manifold.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[bfrank1972]

Hey Pug, excellent write up and dyno documentation, thanks for the effort in putting this together

I spent a few minutes merging the graphs - it may look a little hairy with all of them together so if anyone wants them split up let me know.

Orange is baseline, yellow is ESC installed and off, blue is esc WOT 1, red is esc WOT 2



- Way more impact than I thought with leaving the system off. If this is right, looks like DR is a must have.

- Run 1 looks strange to me because I would have thought the low end would have ramped up much more steeply at 2400 rpm (much like the 2nd run). Instead it has a relatively gradual ramp up to about 4500 rpm where it flattens out. Strange.

- Run 2 looks much more typical, except for that the top end ends up dropping below the *stock* baseline, even seems to drop below the *stock* with the ESC installed and off! Did you guys let up around 7000 rpm?

Pug, how did the car drive after you left compared to before? I'm kind of wondering if there was a bad positive or ground connection, or some other intermittent issue that affected both runs? Or maybe ECU freak-out?

Also, your car can rev to 7900 rpm?

Anyway as odd as these runs were, lots of great info in there. Regardless of the inconsistencies, it's obvious that there's some pretty big bang for the buck with this system! Thanks again for putting this up!

Originally Posted by Pug

Alright! Joe at Goodspeed Performance of Scottsdale, AZ did the dyno runs himself. There were a few things that can be improved next time I get on the dyno, but I got the charts @bfrank1972 and @fenton asked for.

The dynometer in use is a MAHA LPS 3000 PKW; this is the first MAHA test of the Phantom FTS.

All pictures link to larger sizes.

First up, here is the baseline, a stage 1 tune NA-only, the charger was detached and replaced with Perrin's inlet hose. For this run, the hood was up and the supercharger was waiting dejectedly on the floor for its turn.




The NA run produced this graph, showing 151 WHP @ 6960 RPM and 123 ft-lb @ 6430 RPM, which when overlaid with a graph from Toni's ECUTek flashes is pretty normal for a stage 1 NA car.



Then I reinstalled the supercharger. This was a matter of great fascination; these guys had seen electric superchargers before and only had heard of one that generated power, but had never seen one.


I switched the Arm switch to OFF so that the FTS was not operational, and just being an airflow restriction as @bfrank1972 asked. There is no DR when the system is disarmed, it's just in the way. Unsurprisingly, that sucked, dropping max to 129 WHP and 108 lb-ft.


Then came the fun. We reset the ECU and turned the FTS back on.



We had some minor inconsistencies in the SC runs as we fiddled with when to go WOT, and that had some effect on what RPM we obtained maximum torque. This first run is my favorite, and the one that made Joe agree that the FTS really worked. Went WOT at 2400 RPM. 182 WHP @ 7135 RPM and 149 lb-ft @ 5375 RPM.

This run vs the NA run:
WHP: +20% peak, +36% @ 4300 RPM
Torque: +22% peak, +36% @ 4300 RPM



So that's exciting. When we went WOT a little later, about 2800 RPM we got a somewhat different graph. Power fell off a bit at the top end earlier than expected; that's being looked at, but check out what the torque does! This run, WOT at 2800 RPM, has 176 WHP @ 6320 RPM and 164 lb-ft @ 4325 RPM.

This run vs the NA run:
WHP: +16% peak, +64% @ 4300 RPM
Torque: +33% peak, +59% @ 4300 RPM



The other runs we had were extremely similar; the whole system was entirely repeatable, with the only variable being when we went WOT.

During testing the compressor got to 70 C and the controller to 55 C, but never got higher. Ambient was about 26 C. All of the FTS runs were done with the hood down and with a fan blowing. The Perrin tube NA run was done with the hood up.

Next time Joe wants to tap the DR tube to input boost pressure into the dyno; I'll have to be prepared to datalog from BRZedit too.

As is, the Goodspeed Performance guys are interested in selling Rob's kit, too!

[fenton]

I heard they were trying to start the dyno at 1300 rpm for the first couple runs. I wouldn't be surprised if ecutek freaked out and pulled a whole bunch of timing. Either that or they didn't let the car rest at idle after resetting the ecu. We have seen very strange things if you do a run immediately after reset.

Without DR my guess was about 15 to 20 HP on the top end. The good thing about this is you will never be anywhere close to redline with the system completely off.... I agree that Dr is a definetly a worth while addition.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[Pug]

@fenton There was some miscommunication about where to go WOT for the first few runs; I reset the ECU then before we started again. After resetting the ECU we let the car idle long enough to figure out the idle RPM, but that was probably about 3 minutes, certainly not 5. I wasn't aware of that detail, so I'll be more careful next time. Also, this is Toma's BRZedit tune, not ECUtek.

Also, I wasn't aware I could get boost from the PCV hose; since PCV is connected on the low side of the compressor, I figured it would need to be the DR hose.

@bfrank1972 Thanks for the graph merge!

- Run 2 looks much more typical, except for that the top end ends up dropping below the *stock* baseline, even seems to drop below the *stock* with the ESC installed and off! Did you guys let up around 7000 rpm?

Maha dynos have an indicator that flashes when HP levels off or falls while testing; when the power stopped building, Joe let off the throttle. Apparently that's standard practice for doing experimental testing. We figured on that run that the ECU pulled timing for some reason.

Pug, how did the car drive after you left compared to before? I'm kind of wondering if there was a bad positive or ground connection, or some other intermittent issue that affected both runs? Or maybe ECU freak-out?

Drove fine when I left. I double checked everything before leaving the dyno, and again when I got home.

Also, your car can rev to 7900 rpm?

I'm not really sure where the rev limiter is set now in Toma's tune, I think it's about 8000. I never asked, but I've still got my shift light set at 7400.

[fenton]

Ya its 8000 rpm. Sorry not the pcv line you are thinking. When you pull off the manifold cover that says d4a and boxer there are two lines. One is your brake booster and doesn't have to be connected while on the dyno. The other is a pcv line for venting.... That needs to be connected however you can put a T in it for boost. The DR connection point will also work in a pinch.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

- Way more impact than I thought with leaving the system off. If this is right, looks like DR is a must have.

- Run 1 looks strange to me because I would have thought the low end would have ramped up much more steeply at 2400 rpm (much like the 2nd run). Instead it has a relatively gradual ramp up to about 4500 rpm where it flattens out. Strange.

My butt dyno says that the ESC is strongest when engaged between 2000 and 3000 rpm. 2300 to 2700 is a sweet spot. When you engage in this range you are at full boost by the time you are in the low to mid 3000 rpm range...that's where you need the boost the most.

I have not tried to engage below 2000 rpm...and never will. That's just way too much boost at such low rpm. I also find that when I accelerate rapidly from a stand still (with a little clutch slipping), by the time I get to 50% throttle I'm already at 2000 or more rpm.

I know I've stated this before, but the conditions that the drag reduction were tested are only valid for a non-functioning or disarmed system. The area where the drag reduction operates will not see the dramatic 25hp reduction that a WOT run produces. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 5hp or so.

I drove 300 miles of I-80 this weekend through central PA on my way to PSU. This is a very hilly section of I-80. At 70+ mph cruising speeds I never needed the drag reduction as there was enough momentum to carry the over the largest hills. I pretty much hammered the system on my way to PSU...engaging the ESU A LOT. I cruised between 75 and 85 with a few 100+ runs. I got 32 mpg on this leg.

On the way home I kept my speed below 70. Below 60 mph there were a few times that drag reduction kicked in. Drag reduction is very suttle. It barely registers on the voltage meter.I also tested DR with cruise control engaged to see if they are compatible. They are. My cruise control never disengaged due to a DR pulse. On the way home I got 38 mpg.

ESC boost doesn't consume fuel like turbo boost. Between that and my tune, I'm getting much better fuel mileage then I did before the FI transformation. A nice little bonus.

[Fast_Freddy]

Originally Posted by Gary in NJ

ESC boost doesn't consume fuel like turbo boost. Between that and my tune, I'm getting much better fuel mileage then I did before the FI transformation. A nice little bonus.

Really? How is ESC boost any different than turbo boost? If you stated that the parasitic hp losses from the ESC are less than that of a supercharger, I'd be inclined to agree. However, I fail to fathom how the ESC could possibly produce boost with less parasitic losses than a comparable turbo system. As for your fuel economy improving because of the ESC, that is virtually impossible and much more likely to be worse or at best unchanged.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Fast_Freddy

Really? How is ESC boost any different than turbo boost? If you stated that the parasitic hp losses from the ESC are less than that of a supercharger, I'd be inclined to agree. However, I fail to fathom how the ESC could possibly produce boost with less parasitic losses than a comparable turbo system. As for your fuel economy improving because of the ESC, that is virtually impossible and much more likely to be worse or at best unchanged.

Your probably right but might be miss understanding him.

His mileage definetly won't be getting better than just NA.

But it is easy to see how his mileage would be better than a full time FI solution as this is only available at wot where a turbo is on all the time assuming a certain throttle input. I know that you don't always go into positive boost with a turbo setup but I think you would probably go into positive boost more often than the ESC.

ESC boost has no parasitic loss and is a good point for creating more usable power with less but not so much for gaining fuel economy in my opinion.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[fenton]

My mileage log over 10,000 + km has shown virtually no change in mpg.

If you really get on it a lot you will get worse mileage as shown by some of my dyno session fill ups however it is still pretty similar.

I am averaging 8.7L/100km over the last 10 tanks.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

[fenton]

Tune can count for quite a nice change too if he was stock before

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4