FR-S, A Rebadged Subaru? (Article)

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

Well then, lets list the Toyota bin parts shall we?

1) key fob
2) high pressure fuel pump(the one we all hate)
3) DI fuel system
4) I forget, but I'm pretty sure there is a 4th part

What did I neglect to post?

-Key fob (so probably the whole push start ignition system)
-manual key
-manual HVAC knobs
-Turn signal stalk, exterior light stalk and cruise control (I think)
-Digital Clock
-High pressure fuel pump (as mentioned apparently)
-D4S injection system
-transmissions (Aisin is owned by Toyota I believe, but they really just source to everyone)
-I read the rear axle or something is from an IS250? or that was only in a prototype?

[kajun]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

-Digital Clock

took my friend out for a ride when I got my car and told him that clock came directly from scrapped AE86s so Toyota could instill every GT86 with the spirit of the original cars.

Originally Posted by Perihelion

Supra will be at LEAST 40k... it's supposed to be an entry-level hybrid supercar. Plus it's being built with BMW to possibly replace their Z4 (which already starts at 45k and is not a hybrid).

whoa whoa whoa, jumping the gun there... I think I mentioned (was it this thread?) this as being a hypothetical possibility, and you're saying that it's already being built. Any sources on that?

[Perihelion]

Originally Posted by kajun

took my friend out for a ride when I got my car and told him that clock came directly from scrapped AE86s so Toyota could instill every GT86 with the spirit of the original cars.



whoa whoa whoa, jumping the gun there... I think I mentioned (was it this thread?) this as being a hypothetical possibility, and you're saying that it's already being built. Any sources on that?

Not sure, but hypothetically, it would be 45k+, better?

Edit: You also said "will," that's not quite hypothetical. You shouldn't really argue semantics. If it does come out, it "will" be at least 45k, just concede your high 30s estimate is off.

[jdcorbitt3]

The software to program the ECU is Toyota. Funny thing, every part, except the fog light bezels for my FR-S, I had to buy from Subaru.(Turn Signal Stalk, Fog lights, homelink rear view mirror) I couldn't even get the mirror from Toyota. The Subaru part had the adapter and the right cannon plug. Most of the small parts are made by common manufacturer for all these cars. My Mazdas had Sanden compressors and Mitsubishi electronics. I also think of rebadged cars like the Honda Passport-Isuzu Rodeo, Porsche Cayenne-VW Toureg, VW Rutan-Dodge Caravan. Most cars manufactured today, including Lamborghini, have joint venture disigne and engineering. Even my RX-8 had Ford engineering in it. Toyota may have designed this car, but Subaru built most of the major components in it, just like VW with the Toureg. Porsche claims to made changes, but when the seat back fell off my Ceyenne, it said VW inside. They both have the same component failures (plastic coolant pipes, coils, Cardin shafts, ect.)
The bottom line for me. I bought this car because Subaru made it. I don't have trust in the Scion Brand. If my local Subaru dealer had one in stock, and would have given me the money Toyota gave me for my Boxster, I would be driving a BR-Z right now.
I think Toyota is becoming more like Chevrolet. Most of their cars are average, with a few shining models, Corvette, Suburban, FR-S, Tundra, Tacoma.

These are my opinions and are not mention to insult anyone, or even change anyone's mind about anything.
The bottom line for me, I am thoroughly enjoying my FR-S.

John.

[supra2nv]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

What irks me is people fighting over what car is better. Or crying when people call it a Subaru. Or having an elitist attitude because they would "never buy a scion". Lol. Stupid and pointless

So when I was shopping got my Schuberth helmet, I said this to the distributor:, "I don't dwell on brands, I care about the product. For all I care, you could call your helmet tooty fruity...the helmet itself is what I care about...not what it's called.."

[amilleri]

I think the problem with the Scion brand is the fact the prices keep going up when it was supposed to be the affordable younger persons vehicle. Now the prices are close to cars that are just as good or better. Add in the fact Scions have higher insurance rates cause of the younger average driver age.

[supra2nv]

Hyundai prices kept creeping up lol~

Scion means heir btw...

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

-Key fob (so probably the whole push start ignition system)
-manual key
-manual HVAC knobs
-Turn signal stalk, exterior light stalk and cruise control (I think)
-Digital Clock
-High pressure fuel pump (as mentioned apparently)
-D4S injection system
-transmissions (Aisin is owned by Toyota I believe, but they really just source to everyone)
-I read the rear axle or something is from an IS250? or that was only in a prototype?

Thanks for the updated list. I couldn't help but chuckle while reading it, as it seems like we had to go scouring through the entire car to find more pieces

The "rear axle" really got me...don't forget the 16 hex nuts randomly found throughout the car too.

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by amilleri

I think the problem with the Scion brand is the fact the prices keep going up when it was supposed to be the affordable younger persons vehicle. Now the prices are close to cars that are just as good or better. Add in the fact Scions have higher insurance rates cause of the younger average driver age.

Affordable, lol. That concept disappears the first time the young buyers discover the cost of 18" tires. God forbid that enormous(and cool) moonroof would ever shatter. To replace it, you re-purchase 15% of the entire cost of the vehicle!

Yea, affordable. You are correct though, that was their intention...to make it affordable. But I don't feel $800+ for a set of tires every 1.5 years qualifies.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Honestly it's crap like this that makes me angry. There was no point for the Scion brand in the first place if you ask me. I say just let that stupid brand die and focus on making Toyota look less boring.

KISS

They did try it, it was a trio of cars called 'project genesis'. Namely it was the MRS spyder, the Echo and the 7th gen Celica. They didn't take off with the younger demographic so when those cars died they tried the backup plan which was the Scion brand. And it had far more success so they kept at it.

They screwed up Scion by making changes nobody wanted. the xA > xD didn't matter. It should have just been dropped. Especially since they were more or less just 5 door Yaris with a different body. The xB got bloated and fat and less fuel efficient which was exactly the changes nobody wanted since now the bigass xB lost all its first gen charm. The tC well it was a better car with the second gen, but not better than its competition (and its styling was questionable). Doesn't help that other than the tC, FRS and iQ those cars have old as hell mechanicals.

So they bring the iQ which was always going to be a niche car, especially in NA with everything being like twice as big as it (not to mention how expensive it is....it should be cheaper). And the FRS, the RWD sports car that's short on power, big on fun, but not for everyone.

So Scion seems to be back to filling a niche role at Toyota and if they can just fix some of its other cars I think it can survive as a niche brand.

[kajun]

Originally Posted by Perihelion

Not sure, but hypothetically, it would be 45k+, better?

Edit: You also said "will," that's not quite hypothetical. You shouldn't really argue semantics. If it does come out, it "will" be at least 45k, just concede your high 30s estimate is off.

Err I think you got mixed up with who said what. @thill mentioned a possible Supra in this thread being mid-high 30s. I mentioned over in here about Tada-san talking to BMW for a collaboration, and wondered if it'd be the Supra successor.

I wouldn't doubt the price would be higher than mid-30s, but it's also got to compete... I'm guessing it'll be in the 370Z/TT range - but I don't live in the US so I've no idea what your prices would be. In Australia I'd expect it to be at least $70k, but then our 86 starts from $30k and goes up to about $40k already ($27-36k US)

[Perihelion]

Originally Posted by kajun

Err I think you got mixed up with who said what. @thill mentioned a possible Supra in this thread being mid-high 30s. I mentioned over in here about Tada-san talking to BMW for a collaboration, and wondered if it'd be the Supra successor.

I wouldn't doubt the price would be higher than mid-30s, but it's also got to compete... I'm guessing it'll be in the 370Z/TT range - but I don't live in the US so I've no idea what your prices would be. In Australia I'd expect it to be at least $70k, but then our 86 starts from $30k and goes up to about $40k already ($27-36k US)

The Toyota could start around 40k, but BMW will not lower the price on the z4 for a replacement esp since it will incorporate state-of-the-art hybrid tech.

As far as what I said about the Supra/Z4, it's looking like that will be the case: http://www.motortrend.com/features/a..._taking_shape/

No worries on the misunderstanding, it happens :happy0180:

[regal]

The styling guys and platform engineers like Tada create concepts based on market research they do design the chassis which is what you are paying for with the twins. They fight for features and battle a lot of corp politics, they ultimately work for sales/marketing .

But when it comes down to it the lower level engineers working close to the manufacturing plant get things done and have the most impact on ultimate quality, these were the Subaru guys. So the real list:

Toyota -
styling/chassis
Direct Injection
Cylinder Heads
ECU
Both trany's
Rear Diff.

Subaru, everything else. Including the most important part, they build the things. Sounds a lot easier than it is. The smallest tolerances can mean the difference between a life time trouble-free car and a nightmare.

Biggest warranty issue to date : the ECU (luckily handled well)
Most severe warranty issue to date: the DI (complete denial.)

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

The styling guys and platform engineers like Tada create concepts based on market research they do design the chassis which is what you are paying for with the twins. They fight for features and battle a lot of corp politics, they ultimately work for sales/marketing .

But when it comes down to it the lower level engineers working close to the manufacturing plant get things done and have the most impact on ultimate quality, these were the Subaru guys. So the real list:

Toyota -
styling/chassis
Direct Injection
Cylinder Heads
ECU
Both trany's
Rear Diff.

Subaru, everything else. Including the most important part, they build the things. Sounds a lot easier than it is. The smallest tolerances can mean the difference between a life time trouble-free car and a nightmare.

Biggest warranty issue to date : the ECU (luckily handled well)
Most severe warranty issue to date: the DI (complete denial.)

"So the real list".
You say that like you actually know... Yet other sources disagree. Including car and driver who seems more knowledgeable on the subject. They claim
Subie did the chassis design contrary to your claim.. Transmissions are made by Aisin which is 30% owned by Toyota and was modified by subie for this application. So there are some discrepancies in your for "real" list.