Any good reason to stick with 1st Gen?

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

As someone who now owns a first and second gen. (Second gen was purchased first, and the first gen is a replacement for an NA Miata) I can without a doubt say that the second gen is worth it. When you're referring to $20k, you're comparing a beat, probably salvage title, to a new one. It's more of a $10-15k question for a decent one, and even less if you're talking a latter first gen.



The second gen has kept the underlying characteristic of the first gen, and rounded off the rough edges that IMO, always ruled them out from being a daily driver. You add in the improvement in power, and it now feels like the chassis isn't let down by a lack of power.



I'm lucky enough to be able to afford the difference without hurting my finances too much. For someone with less disposable income, that difference may not be worth it to them, but I'm comfortable in saying that for those who can swing the extra money, it's money well spent.


Now, for a track car, I think I'd stick with a first gen. The development cycle is mature, and it's a proven reliable track car. At least as much as anything else really is. IMO power doesn't make track days more fun, just drops your lap times. A good track car is cheap(ish), reliable, cheap to maintain/fix, and safe for if something does happen, and the first gen ticks those boxes.

Actually I am comparing a paid off 16 BRZ in great shape with 100k and headers and tune, some nice cosmetic mods, and swaybars. Car has no payments for the last three years and I do all my own maintenance. Practically paying me to drive it. And you want me to go spend over 30k for essentially the same experience.

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Actually I am comparing a paid off 16 BRZ in great shape with 100k and headers and tune, some nice cosmetic mods, and swaybars. Car has no payments for the last three years and I do all my own maintenance. Practically paying me to drive it. And you want me to go spend over 30k for essentially the same experience.

I’m in a similar position. I have a 38000km 1st gen and after test driving the 2nd gen it wasn’t enough of a change for me to upgrade. I did like the extra low down torque and it convinced me to spend a few thousand on headers and a custom dyno tune, to be a step closer to what I experienced. Granted the 2nd gen will still be quicker but for 20k vs a few thousand it wasn’t worth it for me. Now if my car was high kms and rundown etc., I’d look at a 2nd gen.

Other issue is and this is completely subjective, I prefer the looks of the 1st gen too.

[wbradley]

Because OG.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Actually I am comparing a paid off 16 BRZ in great shape with 100k and headers and tune, some nice cosmetic mods, and swaybars. Car has no payments for the last three years and I do all my own maintenance. Practically paying me to drive it. And you want me to go spend over 30k for essentially the same experience.

I don't care what you do. If you don't want to spend the money, then don't. I've just shared my experience with owning both, and the second gen is absolutely a 15k better car than a 100k mile tuned first gen. If you view that as an attack on you and your car, then that's on you.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Actually I am comparing a paid off 16 BRZ in great shape with 100k and headers and tune, some nice cosmetic mods, and swaybars. Car has no payments for the last three years and I do all my own maintenance. Practically paying me to drive it. And you want me to go spend over 30k for essentially the same experience.

Additionally, it would only cost you "over 30k" if you ignore the thread topic entirely - "any good reason to stick with 1st Gen".

For an additional $30+k what you're talking about is keeping your 1st Gen and buying a 2nd Gen on top of that. foshjowler is specifically referencing his experience as an owner of both at the same time to provide insight.

The 2nd Gen is a much better car. If the list price minus the trade-in for your car isn't worth getting a better car to you, then it's not worth it to you.

People make more/less money and consider their "car budget" to be a larger/smaller portion of that money. I've seen people living in squalor driving brand-new SUVs, and people in nice neighborhoods driving old beaters. Just a question of how much of your money you're willing to spend on how much car.

No judgement from me (or most people with useful opinions) unless it's the jackass who can't put food on the table for their kids but has a tricked-out Escalade to cruise around in.

[ZDan]

For me, I definitely would have kept my '17 PP for another couple of years if I didn't suddenly have to replace it. Weirdly enough the '23 feels a little *slower* around town, I guess due to throttle mapping. TBH the last-gen was if anything a little too "jumpy", it made my '11 Cayman feel *slow* on trips around town even with its Sport Chrono SPORT button mashed (God forbid you forget to do that...)!

Feel for me on the street is pretty close to the same overall. New gauges kinda suck compared to the old ones, I miss the nice bright red illuminated tach needle, and of course the screen can wash out a bit with incident sunlight. Also the "updated" fuel gauge is dumb, 12 discrete bars when much much finer resolution is useful for me, combined with a range/"distance-to-tank-empty" that now decrements in 10-mile units, which is just STUPID! Old one, getting nearish to empty you'd get a countdown 10-9-8... all the way to zero. So previously you could know your "safe" range at a glance, now you have to figure out *where* in the 10-mile increment you are, and then it goes to "--" after 10-miles, depriving you of any knowledge of range when it is most critical to know. grrr....
Other gripe, no more CD player

On the plus side, new car is quite a bit FASTER at the track. Even saddled with +200 lb. more weight, I'm hitting speeds +5mph faster so far at known tracks (Thompson CT, Palmer MA). Faster lap times as well, by about 1 second, despite +200 lb. weight penalty and being on 225 A052s with the new car vs. 245s on the old one. Also beat my previous best time at Palmer in the old car on Hoosier A7s, with the new on on A052s. Looking forward to Watkins Glen in a few weeks, where additional power should really pay off!

For looks, I never understood people's assessments of gen1 vs. gen2. If anything, gen2 is more organic and sculpted and in grey kinda sharklike, vs. more aggro and mechanical for gen 1 with more angry bird-of-prey headlights. Love both, gen 1 definitely looks goofier stock though (mine was lowered ~35mm), gen2 is less on stilts in stock form (mine's 30/35mm lower).

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by ZDan

For me, I definitely would have kept my '17 PP for another couple of years if I didn't suddenly have to replace it. Weirdly enough the '23 feels a little *slower* around town, I guess due to throttle mapping. TBH the last-gen was if anything a little too "jumpy", it made my '11 Cayman feel *slow* on trips around town even with its Sport Chrono SPORT button mashed (God forbid you forget to do that...)!

Feel for me on the street is pretty close to the same overall. New gauges kinda suck compared to the old ones, I miss the nice bright red illuminated tach needle, and of course the screen can wash out a bit with incident sunlight. Also the "updated" fuel gauge is dumb, 12 discrete bars when much much finer resolution is useful for me, combined with a range/"distance-to-tank-empty" that now decrements in 10-mile units, which is just STUPID! Old one, getting nearish to empty you'd get a countdown 10-9-8... all the way to zero. So previously you could know your "safe" range at a glance, now you have to figure out *where* in the 10-mile increment you are, and then it goes to "--" after 10-miles, depriving you of any knowledge of range when it is most critical to know. grrr....
Other gripe, no more CD player

On the plus side, new car is quite a bit FASTER at the track. Even saddled with +200 lb. more weight, I'm hitting speeds +5mph faster so far at known tracks (Thompson CT, Palmer MA). Faster lap times as well, by about 1 second, despite +200 lb. weight penalty and being on 225 A052s with the new car vs. 245s on the old one. Also beat my previous best time at Palmer in the old car on Hoosier A7s, with the new on on A052s. Looking forward to Watkins Glen in a few weeks, where additional power should really pay off!

For looks, I never understood people's assessments of gen1 vs. gen2. If anything, gen2 is more organic and sculpted and in grey kinda sharklike, vs. more aggro and mechanical for gen 1 with more angry bird-of-prey headlights. Love both, gen 1 definitely looks goofier stock though (mine was lowered ~35mm), gen2 is less on stilts in stock form (mine's 30/35mm lower).

200 more lbs in weight?

Oh because of classing. That's irrelevant to people who aren't worried about that.

[Liquidsnake]

Originally Posted by foshjowler

I don't care what you do. If you don't want to spend the money, then don't. I've just shared my experience with owning both, and the second gen is absolutely a 15k better car than a 100k mile tuned first gen. If you view that as an attack on you and your car, then that's on you.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had two GEN ones and the immediate things I noticed when I was driving home from the dealership with my GEN two was a better steering wheel, less road noise, better quality materials, such as the pillars, the arm rest the gauges, the opening and closing of the glove box felt premium of course the engine the feel of the ride. I felt like I was driving a more mature adult sports car.

I’m gonna say something that may make some angry, but there were times when I was driving my first generation that made me a little embarrassed with the car. I don’t feel embarrassed with this version. Some of you may know what I’m talking about.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

200 more lbs in weight?

Oh because of classing. That's irrelevant to people who aren't worried about that.

Yeah, shoulda been more clear about that. '17's competition weight was 2907 lb. with driver. '23 has to be 3107 lb. for COMSCC T50 class I got there by installing the '17s spare tire and adding 120 lb. ballast in/around it. The good news there is that weight distribution is now 51.5F/48.5R. New car definitely understeers a lot less, much better steady-state handling balance. Partly due to stiffer coilovers vs. Swift lowering springs + B8s on the old car...

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Also the "updated" fuel gauge is dumb, 12 discrete bars when much much finer resolution is useful for me, combined with a range/"distance-to-tank-empty" that now decrements in 10-mile units, which is just STUPID! Old one, getting nearish to empty you'd get a countdown 10-9-8... all the way to zero. So previously you could know your "safe" range at a glance, now you have to figure out *where* in the 10-mile increment you are, and then it goes to "--" after 10-miles, depriving you of any knowledge of range when it is most critical to know. grrr....
Other gripe, no more CD player

My '22 does per-mile distance-to-empty the whole way. Dunno what's up with yours.

CD player? Really? I mean sure, I have a bunch of CDs too but it's been a good decade since I ripped them all to MP3 and packed them into storage never to be seen again.

I don't think I've had smaller than a 100 song playlist in an automobile in about the same amount of time, and this car is only the second one we've had with an "infotainment" system. My truck still has a cheapo head unit with a removeable faceplate and SD card slot that I plug my MP3-laden cards into.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

My '22 does per-mile distance-to-empty the whole way. Dunno what's up with yours.

CD player? Really? I mean sure, I have a bunch of CDs too but it's been a good decade since I ripped them all to MP3 and packed them into storage never to be seen again.

I don't think I've had smaller than a 100 song playlist in an automobile in about the same amount of time, and this car is only the second one we've had with an "infotainment" system. My truck still has a cheapo head unit with a removeable faceplate and SD card slot that I plug my MP3-laden cards into.

Our '18 Mazda 3 doesn't have a CD player either.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

My '22 does per-mile distance-to-empty the whole way. Dunno what's up with yours.

I think it's a GR86/BRZ thing. NGL If I'da known I would have gone GR86 over this issue!

CD player? Really? I mean sure, I have a bunch of CDs too but it's been a good decade since I ripped them all to MP3 and packed them into storage never to be seen again.

I listen to music at home and in the car, never when I'm out and about on foot, hence never any need or desire to rip to MP3 or other format. So 100s of CDs and I don't have a computer at home with a CD drive...

I think there are Chinese CD players that *may* work when plugged into the USB but I'm surprised there aren't more options here...

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I think it's a GR86/BRZ thing. NGL If I'da known I would have gone GR86 over this issue!

I listen to music at home and in the car, never when I'm out and about on foot, hence never any need or desire to rip to MP3 or other format. So 100s of CDs and I don't have a computer at home with a CD drive...

I think there are Chinese CD players that *may* work when plugged into the USB but I'm surprised there aren't more options here...

I pretty much only listen to music in the car anymore. I don't wear headphones at all in public, and watch YouTube on the treadmill at home. It's less an issue of the "portability" of the format as it is the density. There are relatively few albums I want to listen to on repeat for any period of time, and I really don't like playing with the stereo while I'm driving. Changing a CD is just a distraction. With MP3s I can set up a USB drive with 12+ hours of non-repeating music. Between that and streaming services through Android Auto I have endless audio that doesn't distract from driving or require me storing physical media in the car.

I can basically program my own radio station with hundreds of song and zero annoying disc jockeys trying to talk when I want to rock.

If the CD drive is holding you back at home you can get a cheap external USB one off Amazon for $20. Convert your entire library to MP3, load it on a USB drive, and then every song is available in the car without buying a different stereo or ever changing a CD.

[OkieSnuffBox]

With crap stock stereo you aren't going to notice the difference of the HQ downloads from Spotify to your phone. Which is what I use in the car/home, and when we still went into an office for more than a decade now.

It's just too convenient.