AP Racing by Essex Brakes for the 2022 GR86

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by fredzy

I figured that would be prohibitively expensive, but since you mentioned I took a look at what a spare set of rings would cost.. and it's not too bad. If I stick with it, would be a reasonable option.

@JRitt Curious if there are any plans to offer cheaper/1-piece/no-slots rotors for those who dual-duty their cars and are willing to swap rotors along with pads for street use.

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by driveside79

Just got my 2022 GR86, love it! I do a few track weekends a year, all "DE" type with 20-25 minute sessions. Plan to keep the car largely unmodified except maybe coilovers. Radi-Cal clearly seems like overkill for me - should I get the Sprint or Endurance kit? I'm all for the "get only what you need and no more" mantra, but wondering how to choose between these two kits. Thanks!

Congrats on the new car! I'm definitely jealous. The one we had in here was awesome and the new BRZ is pretty much at the top of my list of reasonably priced cars I really want to own.

In terms of Sprint vs. Endurance, that just comes down to how much 'headroom' you want in your system. For anything close to a stock-powered car, the Sprint Kit will get the job done 9 times out of 10. We've had Gen.1 86 win endurance racing championships on our Sprint Kit and they've also been used all over the world with engine swaps, forced induction, etc. Scroll down towards the bottom of our blog for a whole bunch of reviews on our Sprint Kit: https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog

Here are some considerations when choosing between our 299mm and 325mm kits:

• The 299mm Sprint Kit shaves about 20 lbs. unsprung weight vs. stock, whereas the 325mm Endurance Kit still shaves about 10 lbs.vs. stock.
• They both use the same basic caliper body and pad shape, and both have street and track pad compounds readily available in many flavors.
• The pads in the 325mm kit are a slightly taller variant of the same basic shape, which adds some volume and heat capacity vs. the pad used in the 299mm Kit.
• The 299mm Kit will offer slightly better wheel barrel clearance for smaller diameter wheels
• The 325mm Kit has floating discs, whereas the discs on the 299mm Kit are non-floating
• Spare discs are less expensive with the 299mm system, but you’ll likely have to change them more frequently than you will with the 325mm kit.

That's about it in terms of differences. I'd characterize it like this:

Our 299mm Kit is likely your best choice if:

• You are using the car to compete in autoX, Time Trials, or wheel-to-wheel racing and every tenth of a second is important to you.
• You are a weight reduction junkie and want the absolute lightest weight brake solution possible
• You want to use the absolute smallest, lightest wheels possible
• You have no plans to add big power to your car via forced induction, engine swap, etc.

Our 325mm may be your best choice if:

• You use your car more for fun than competition (HPDE), and you place a greater value on not having to fiddle with your brakes than you do saving every hundredth of a second.
• You want to change your pads, discs, and bleed your brakes as infrequently as possible.
• You think you might someday add significant horsepower, race tires, and/or aero to your car.
• You like the look of a slightly larger brake package behind your wheels

At the end of the day, they’re both fantastic options, and they both still weigh far less than stock. There are many upsides to both vs. the OEM brakes, and no downsides. You can’t really go wrong with either.

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Hi JRitt, I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Essex/AP Racing would be updating the Sprint/Endurance kit architecture, for lack of a better word, for the 2022 GR86/BRZ?

I don't just mean altering the mounting bracket to fit the BRZ. I mean an overhaul per say of the Sprint/Endurance kit, as those kits are over 10 years old now. Any info?

We have finalized the designs for our 299mm and 325mm kits for the 2022 BRZ and they are completely new and different from our old kits. We had originally thought some components from our old kits would carry over, but have determined that is not possible for proper fitment on the new chassis. Our goal with these two kits is to continue providing tremendous performance value. Both of these kits offer the most bang-for-the-buck possible. They add considerable lightness the car, provide a tremendous amount of durability, and offer extremely low long-term running costs.


If budget isn't as much of a concern and you're looking for the absolute cutting-edge in brake technology, then our larger Radi-CAL Kits are the ticket. They are a bit heavier due to their physical size, but they essentially offer more of everything...larger, onger lasting pads and discs, huge amount of headroom to handle any other mods you might throw at the car, etc.

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by fredzy

I'll put my one question out front here - I had a lot of questions but eventually found answers to them. I'll include that in my post below as info for whoever.

Q: How do I find brake pads for the Sprint kit calipers outside your website?

Before anyone attacks: I plan to go for the DS2500 to start. I hope to do 2 or 3 HPDE per year, but I don't have much headroom for another hobby. Tracking my car in the real world faces really stiff competition: Assetto Corsa, hah. So if I end up never really tracking the car and find the DS2500 pads to be too aggressive for my daily use tastes (I believe they are the mildest Essex offers) I would try something more akin to an OEM compound.

Thanks for pointing the stories on your blog out, some of them helped alleviated concerns I had about street/daily use of the Sprint kit. I'm pretty sure I'll go for these brakes - a set of grey AP calipers with J-hook discs is dream-car stuff for me. These will make a little bit of practical sense too if I can manage to get to the track more than once or twice per year like I said.

Again, the DS2500 seems a reasonable pad choice based on the information on your site and I'll try that. The only concern is if they compromise both street and track - something that could only be determined for me by trying them. I considered running something definitely good for street and then use a dedicated track pad for track days. I had some concerns about this that I couldn't find answers for on Essex site. I assumed some special considerations needed to be made when switching back and forth between street and track brake pads, like a full re-bed any time they are switched. I was right, but I think it's a little risky. Particularly for someone used to nice smooth, quiet OEM style daily driving brakes. I believe wonky things can easily happen with pad material deposition on the rotors, so I will avoid this.

The pad shapes we use in our calipers were intentionally chosen because every pad manufacturer makes them in a wide variety of compounds. For a ton more info just go to one of our brake kits for the BRZ and scroll down slightly to where it says, "20mm thick brake pads in a commonly available shape." Like here: https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...t-cp8350299brz



You can find everything from super-aggressive race compounds to ultra-plush road compounds (Hawk Performance Ceramic). In the area of our site mentioned above, we even have the cross-reference part number shapes for a wide variety of brands. You can find them all over the web using those codes. This pad shape is also used by other brake caliper manufacturers, so they're extremely easy to find.


For many BRZ owners, the Ferodo DS2500 is more than capable to use as both a road and track pad compound. We have BMW M2 and Porsche 911 owners running the DS2500 in our brake kits in both environments. They are one of the most versatile compounds on the market today. Keep in mind that some of the people who try the DS2500 and find that they don't think it's quite enough for track use are on stock discs and calipers. The discs in our systems run considerably cooler than stock, which keeps the overall system temps down and prevents the DS2500 from getting as hot. In other words, if the DS2500 can't handle your car on stock discs and calipers, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't work well when run in our AP Racing brake systems for your car.



If you do plan to swap between street and track pads, managing discs and is definitely a consideration. Having a set of discs is one solution, but if managed properly, it is possible to use the same set of pads with different discs and not have any issues. We did a video on that topic years ago. This is a considerably younger me with my trusty old steed, the C5 Z06 (one of my favorite cars I've ever owned BTW):

[JRitt]

A reminder to everyone...we have not yet measured the new GR86. Everything noted above applies to the 2022 BRZ, which has new aluminum spindles. We may find on the GR86 that our Gen. 1 brake kits bolt to the car with no modification.



We expect to find that our new Radi-CAL Kits for the '22 BRZ will also be applicable to the new GR86. In other words, it's probably safe to expect a similarly full range of AP Racing by Essex brake options for the GR86.



Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm trying to post in about three different sections of this forum, and I'm trying to always keep in mind who the specific audience is. Since we're in this transition period to the new cars, it's making things a bit difficult. Thanks.

[fredzy]

Originally Posted by JRitt

A reminder to everyone...we have not yet measured the new GR86. Everything noted above applies to the 2022 BRZ, which has new aluminum spindles. We may find on the GR86 that our Gen. 1 brake kits bolt to the car with no modification.



We expect to find that our new Radi-CAL Kits for the '22 BRZ will also be applicable to the new GR86. In other words, it's probably safe to expect a similarly full range of AP Racing by Essex brake options for the GR86.



Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm trying to post in about three different sections of this forum, and I'm trying to always keep in mind who the specific audience is. Since we're in this transition period to the new cars, it's making things a bit difficult. Thanks.

Thanks a lot for the detailed responses, very helpful, and I feel you on having to run around all over these forums. Seems to me they should be more consolidated. On top of having two basically redundant forums, people seem to post new threads for every thought they have! haha

Funny with all the searching I did that your YT video of brake pad swapping didn't come up for me - other brake related videos did. Those algorithms I tell ya. I'll try the DS2500 - will probably be fine for me on street and good enough on track too, considering my driving style there.

Also, I didn't realize the 299mm discs weren't floating.. not that it matters that much but.. yeah probably have to go Endurance Perhaps the Endurance would be more able to handle a track day on a mellow pad vs. Sprint, potentially simplifying things.

[Dylans47]

Originally Posted by JRitt

We have finalized the designs for our 299mm and 325mm kits for the 2022 BRZ and they are completely new and different from our old kits. We had originally thought some components from our old kits would carry over, but have determined that is not possible for proper fitment on the new chassis. Our goal with these two kits is to continue providing tremendous performance value. Both of these kits offer the most bang-for-the-buck possible. They add considerable lightness the car, provide a tremendous amount of durability, and offer extremely low long-term running costs.

Is this link the redesigned kit you're referring to? From the description it sounds like new caliper brackets with the gen 1 caliper (CP8350). If the new design has yet to hit the website I'm really excited to see it!
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...t-cp8350299brz

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by JRitt

We have finalized the designs for our 299mm and 325mm kits for the 2022 BRZ and they are completely new and different from our old kits. We had originally thought some components from our old kits would carry over, but have determined that is not possible for proper fitment on the new chassis.

Can you elaborate? The wording makes it look like every single thing has changed, but from my understanding the caliper and the rotor haven't changed.

[Dylans47]

Sorry to hit you with more questions, but I can't seem to figure out why the endurance 325mm kit's rotors are considered floating while the sprint's 299mm rotors are not? I was under the impression that "floating" simply means a two piece rotor. The 299mm rotor is obviously two piece too!

Sprint's 299:


Endurance's 325:

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

I was under the impression that "floating" simply means a two piece rotor.

That seems to be a common misconception on the Internet.
2-piece can be non-floating. Floating requires special hardware that allows the said "floating".

A quick Google search finds this video that shows those "floating/spring washers":

[zeroomega]

Originally Posted by JRitt

We have finalized the designs for our 299mm and 325mm kits for the 2022 BRZ and they are completely new and different from our old kits. We had originally thought some components from our old kits would carry over, but have determined that is not possible for proper fitment on the new chassis. Our goal with these two kits is to continue providing tremendous performance value. Both of these kits offer the most bang-for-the-buck possible. They add considerable lightness the car, provide a tremendous amount of durability, and offer extremely low long-term running costs.


If budget isn't as much of a concern and you're looking for the absolute cutting-edge in brake technology, then our larger Radi-CAL Kits are the ticket. They are a bit heavier due to their physical size, but they essentially offer more of everything...larger, onger lasting pads and discs, huge amount of headroom to handle any other mods you might throw at the car, etc.

I think I need a bit clarification on this as well. I would like to know except for the mounting bracket, what other parts are changed and incompatible in the gen2 kits. I have the endurace kit for the gen 1 FR-S. Purchased from CSG but the package was actually shipped directly from Essex AP Racing. I am anticipated to get a GR86 this year and will carry over my current ap endurance kit. I don't want to be in a situation that I have to sell my used kit and then purchase a new 2nd gen kit given the fact that they are the same calipers same rotor sizes and have almost identical geometry. It's a waste of money.

I also noticed that the replacement rotors rings listed on AP's own web pages have some conflicting information. In page https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...t-cp8350325brz, the "Whats in the box section" said "One pair 325x32mm AP Racing CP3908, 70 vane, J Hook racing discs, with fully floating 6061 hard anodized aluminum hats, and attachment hardware". However, in the technical spec tab, the rotor listed are "CP3870-138/139GC". The CP3870 are $80 more expensive than CP3908 while both rotor rings are the same 325x32mm 70 vanes design. Are they compatible? Why this conflicting information exist?

[driveside79]

Originally Posted by JRitt

A reminder to everyone...we have not yet measured the new GR86. Everything noted above applies to the 2022 BRZ, which has new aluminum spindles. We may find on the GR86 that our Gen. 1 brake kits bolt to the car with no modification.



We expect to find that our new Radi-CAL Kits for the '22 BRZ will also be applicable to the new GR86. In other words, it's probably safe to expect a similarly full range of AP Racing by Essex brake options for the GR86.

Any word/ETA on getting a GR86 in your shop to measure? Wish I was closer to you otherwise I would totally volunteer my car.

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by Dylans47

Is this link the redesigned kit you're referring to? From the description it sounds like new caliper brackets with the gen 1 caliper (CP8350). If the new design has yet to hit the website I'm really excited to see it!
https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...t-cp8350299brz

That is correct...that is the new kit.

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Can you elaborate? The wording makes it look like every single thing has changed, but from my understanding the caliper and the rotor haven't changed.

Both the bracket and the disc hat have changed. If just the bracket is changed, our Gen.1 disc makes contact with the suspension components. It unfortunately just won't work. As such, it is a new kit that requires different components. We have the '22 BRZ coming in this Thursday finalize fitment with the new prototype parts.