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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 05-13-2020, 04:09 PM   #813
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Just got confirmation...

As of yesterday 5/11/20 Gunma factory is now back up and running...at 50% rate.

What that means as far as twin production is anyone's guess. I would bet Forester, Crosstrek & Levorg are the focus of production currently at Gunma, followed by WRX, STI & Twins as needed only.
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Old 05-13-2020, 09:25 PM   #814
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No you are doing it all wrong. That shit belongs in the troll thread. This is the GR86 insider information thread. We are very serious here.
Sorry

In other related news > https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=701
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:29 PM   #815
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2 things to note here & this isn't pin pointing at you only, but to everyone who thinking about FA24 is a solution.
1. I've talked with few engineers from Toyota side and they're still baffled on why Subaru to making the way they're making their engine. Engine is so unbalanced. Even in US, engine shops have seen huge difference in weight in each cylinders. Hell, if Honda engineers see it, they'll laugh at how bad it is. Even GR engineers stated that, if they fully build engine FA20 the way Toyota build it, it can easily push 220 safely and proven that w 86GRMN. But Subaru doesn't not want to change the way they build the engine (for cost cutting or whatever) they'll make hit or miss engine aka ticking bomb. It took long time to Tada-san tell them how to build this FA engine. They didn't want to hear what he gotta say, but had to listen. Now, they use that knowledge to make FA20DIT, which I would say damn good engine. BUT that information was giving from Toyota side, so you can take it as a grain of salt... I feel like history of EJ engine pretty much proven this. BUT that can be said the same w Toyota US dealership mech too, so Toyota can't really say much lol
2. List stock Subaru 4 cylinder boxer engine that's over 2L that have higher rpm than FA20 or EJ20. I'll wait. Cuz there aren't any. Even the famous 22B (EJ22) can't rev higher than EJ20. Look at JDM STI vs USDM STI redline. Yeah... it's different for sure, cuz JDM uses EJ207 vs USDM uses EJ257. That 0.5L make HUGE difference. So IDK why ppl are so hyped about FA24 gonna be equipped in next gen. Technically, FA24 was build for heavy car aka having ton of power low end w no power high end. Of course, that can be changed, but Subaru gonna change THAT much difference? Hm... questionable. Subaru's boxer engine already dying at high end from NA form adding extra 0.4L with extra weight on the car is like making fat person sprint. Don't get me wrong, you'll feel a lot more tq than current 86, but what do you get at the high end? Nothing. Oh wait, after tq dip, you got +-1k rpm til it'll hit the redline. Oh~ you thought tq dip was only FA thing? FA20 causes more tq dip than other Subaru boxer engine due to switch of DI to PI, but tq dip is in EVERY Subaru boxer engine. Recently Subaru is hiding it well w turbo spooling early.

With that said, take my info as a grain of salt. I don't have ALL the info of next gen. All I can say is adding power or spec on the paper isn't always the answer. This car, 86/BRZ was the example of that. Now, greedy people want a bit of juice from this car is making this car isn't what made this car is. Not everything is bad from next gen (I've heard few good infos), but we can only hope and guestimate.
Forgive me if I misinterpreted this, but you're saying that if Subaru took the time to really hone in and refine the FA20, it could make 220 stock? Another point you made as well mentioned higher once GR touched it. If that's the case, I'm surprised Toyota didn't convince or force them to do such a thing.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:28 AM   #816
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Originally Posted by weederr33 View Post
Forgive me if I misinterpreted this, but you're saying that if Subaru took the time to really hone in and refine the FA20, it could make 220 stock? Another point you made as well mentioned higher once GR touched it. If that's the case, I'm surprised Toyota didn't convince or force them to do such a thing.
86GRMN pushing 220ps. Of course, 86GRMN were limited Edi, but the point is w right ppl FA20 can easily push 220 AND comes w warranty, not worried bout exploding.
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:13 AM   #817
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I hear the second generation might come in black. Super excited
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Old 05-15-2020, 02:03 AM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
86GRMN pushing 220ps. Of course, 86GRMN were limited Edi, but the point is w right ppl FA20 can easily push 220 AND comes w warranty, not worried bout exploding.
Aka, not a single person that works for Subaru.

Wish they could just use Honda engines.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:40 AM   #819
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Originally Posted by weederr33 View Post
Forgive me if I misinterpreted this, but you're saying that if Subaru took the time to really hone in and refine the FA20, it could make 220 stock? Another point you made as well mentioned higher once GR touched it. If that's the case, I'm surprised Toyota didn't convince or force them to do such a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ichitaka05 View Post
86GRMN pushing 220ps. Of course, 86GRMN were limited Edi, but the point is w right ppl FA20 can easily push 220 AND comes w warranty, not worried bout exploding.
Yes, but it would need to get emission approval in all countries including Europe which has more strict rules. I had a discussion with a vendor working with OEMs and he was saying that this would be possible if the new model was a mild hybrid. This somehow moves the car in a different emissions category with less restrictions. Then you could have racier cams and a rev limit close to 8000 RPM. Under this assumption 220-230ps would be possible.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:59 AM   #820
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Yes, but it would need to get emission approval in all countries including Europe which has more strict rules. I had a discussion with a vendor working with OEMs and he was saying that this would be possible if the new model was a mild hybrid. This somehow moves the car in a different emissions category with less restrictions. Then you could have racier cams and a rev limit close to 8000 RPM. Under this assumption 220-230ps would be possible.
THIS ^


I will never understand how people think that the manufacturers are free to do whatever they wish. What is possible and what is permissible are two radically different things.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:24 AM   #821
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Yes, but it would need to get emission approval in all countries including Europe which has more strict rules. I had a discussion with a vendor working with OEMs and he was saying that this would be possible if the new model was a mild hybrid. This somehow moves the car in a different emissions category with less restrictions. Then you could have racier cams and a rev limit close to 8000 RPM. Under this assumption 220-230ps would be possible.
I would be open to the concept of a mild hybrid system if they kept the FA20. I don't like the idea of moving to a larger motor like the FA24.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:27 AM   #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
THIS ^


I will never understand how people think that the manufacturers are free to do whatever they wish. What is possible and what is permissible are tow radically different things.
BUT HONDA DID IT IN 1999 BRO.


/s

Where's Honda's 100hp/L NA 2L today huh? I don't see it guys.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:49 AM   #823
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BUT HONDA DID IT IN 1999 BRO.


/s

Where's Honda's 100hp/L NA 2L today huh? I don't see it guys.
And it was BULLET PROOF YO
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Old 05-15-2020, 09:30 AM   #824
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BUT HONDA DID IT IN 1999 BRO.


/s

Where's Honda's 100hp/L NA 2L today huh? I don't see it guys.
The k20z3 used in Si models up to 2015...

100hp/L... ��
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Old 05-15-2020, 09:37 AM   #825
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The k20z3 used in Si models up to 2015...

100hp/L... ��
That was until 2011 (8th gen Si). The 9th gen Si had the K24 which is a 2.4 liter with 201 HP (which incidentally also got a 5 HP/ 5 TQ boost facelift).
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Old 05-15-2020, 09:42 AM   #826
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220 crank horsepower is available right now with tuning. 220 whp would be a stretch without cam changes and more rpm. I think Subaru has a good understanding of valve train limits.
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