2020 TRD Camry Looks Good On Paper

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by mav1178

sorry for the late reply to this post, but if you look at Honda Civic Type-Rs all day, you'd understand the same thing corporate executives understand: there's a huge market for this type of car.

Honda can't keep up with demand for the Type-R, plain and simple. Hate on the car all we want but it sells and the demand isn't slowing down.

For years, people complained about the Camry being too plain or boring. Now Toyota does something wild to it, and everyone complains about the mods.

Corporate thinks there will be a big demand but they thought the same about TRD 86 and are giving $3,000 cashback less than a year after release.

I think the difference is that Honda has a better known road racing pedigree than Toyota that funnels most of it's racing budget into NASCAR in the US. We'll see, but I'm betting that TRD Camry's will be heavily discounted and have massive factory cashback within six months.

Factor in a shrinking market for sedans, dealers who won't understand what they have or how to merchandise them, and after the early adopters get theirs, the TRD will be relegated to the back lot next to the leftover TRD 86's.

[Lantanafrs2]

The big 3 are flooding the domestic market with performance vehicles that are hard to beat. Toyota and Honda are betting on brand loyalty. See how it works out

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Atmo

Corporate thinks there will be a big demand but they thought the same about TRD 86 and are giving $3,000 cashback less than a year after release.

I think the difference is that Honda has a better known road racing pedigree than Toyota that funnels most of it's racing budget into NASCAR in the US. We'll see, but I'm betting that TRD Camry's will be heavily discounted and have massive factory cashback within six months.

Factor in a shrinking market for sedans, dealers who won't understand what they have or how to merchandise them, and after the early adopters get theirs, the TRD will be relegated to the back lot next to the leftover TRD 86's.

The TRD 86 is a 2019 model year. Of course those left over will be discounted because the mindset is that I shouldn’t pay full price for a car that will be “old” in a few months time. The TRD 86 was just too damn expensive for the market that is soft on the 86 in the first place.

The TRD Camry is the opposite of the TRD 86. The 86 was a cost up over a normal one because of the brembos, wheels, dampers, and aero kit over the standard and GT 86. This car is cheaper than the XSE V6 Camry and has the curbside “wow” factor of the aero kit/wheels/etc. If anything gets relegated to the back lot, it will be the XSE V6 because people don’t understand the options and tech that pushes the XSE V6 to $36k in the first place. Don’t underestimate people judging a book by its cover and loving a bargain.

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[Atmo]

Of course everyone likes a bargain, but the TRD may be stepping over the line trying to position Camry, always sold as the reliable DD, into a track ready F/F sports sedan. Also, if you add the SE option packages, the price quickly climbs over $35K.

I've said in other threads that I like it a lot but haven't driven one. It'll be interesting to see impressions from others considering buying. Possible increases in NVH and the 0.6" lower chassis (and presumably lower hip point) may turn buyers toward either XSE instead.

Not me, but I'm not the typical Camry buyer in the first place. I'm thinking it could be a contender in SCCA solo H Stock next year.

No doubt, the TRD Camry is facing an uphill battle after early adopters get theirs and the TRD 86 shows why. It's marketed as the ultimate 86 yet Cargurus shows 304 listings (not necessarily unique cars) nationwide being sold for <$28K, over $5K below MSRP. I'd expect the same for TRD Camry.


https://tinyurl.com/y6bqmluh

[Lantanafrs2]

All the 86 needed was more torque, not brakes or aero. Every single review makes reference to the lack of acceleration after lauding the style and handling. The way they seem to stress the lack of torque serves to taint the car and form the overall direction of the review.

[Quentin]

I don’t see any option packages on the TRD Camry.


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[Will BRZ]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

All the 86 needed was more torque, not brakes or aero. Every single review makes reference to the lack of acceleration after lauding the style and handling. The way they seem to stress the lack of torque serves to taint the car and form the overall direction of the review.

Hell yeah totally agree. Kinda felt the same way about the tS. Of course it’s been talked about to death by everyone, but if they’re going to make improvements to the car, might as well do it where it needs them. I know it’s a light, low horsepower car and in some ways, I like the way that it serves as an “open canvas”, but if they work out those tiny kinks from factory, it would literally be the perfect car. I’m pulling for them to make these improvements in the next couple of years but who knows.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

All the 86 needed was more torque, not brakes or aero. Every single review makes reference to the lack of acceleration after lauding the style and handling. The way they seem to stress the lack of torque serves to taint the car and form the overall direction of the review.

If it weren't for the Japanese displacement tax, I think a 84mm stroke x 92mm bore for would've been nice to get that 11% more torque and open up the top end just a little more for a nice 230hp ish (turns into like 250 with a tune) to approximate a detuned 2.2L AP2 S2000. The better aero would make it faster in many situations.

[Atmo]

That's over $1K less than the CarsDirect link, impressive.

I have an appointment at my dealership to demo a Supra on Monday while getting my wife's Camry hybrid serviced and will look for a TRD Camry then. I like it in black.


https://pressroom.toyota.com/camry-t...o-the-streets/


https://toyota-cms-media.s3.amazonaw...nformation.pdf

[radroach]

>3500lbs

I'll keep my 1999 Camry which is 500lb lighter and can probably run circles around it.

Also the fact that I've seen people cross shopping between an 86 and a new Camry is weird.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by radroach

>3500lbs

I'll keep my 1999 Camry which is 500lb lighter and can probably run circles around it.

Also the fact that I've seen people cross shopping between an 86 and a new Camry is weird.

195hp pulling ~3100lbs isn’t going to touch 301hp pulling 3570lbs. The TRD is based on the lighter SE trim rather than the moonroof and gadget equipped XSE.


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[Atmo]

Originally Posted by radroach

>3500lbs

I'll keep my 1999 Camry which is 500lb lighter and can probably run circles around it.

Also the fact that I've seen people cross shopping between an 86 and a new Camry is weird.

I haven't read anyone cross shopping TRD Camry to 86. Maxima, Accord Sport, Mazda 6 2.5T, and Mercedes C-Class (non-AMG), yes, so far.

They really need to do something about the sluggish 8A/T that's the weakest link in an otherwise admirable effort.

Most every review of models using the 8A/T and posts here mention the problem including the latest blog writeup. It's become a class action lawsuit against Toyota. FTA:

"What I don't like is the eight-speed automatic transmission tuning -- it upshifts far too early to actually allow me to eke out maximum power. I'd be less upset if the manual mode actually offered full manual control, but it doesn't: it panics and upshifts when the cars are driven aggressively, meaning I have to force a reactionary downshift. So annoying."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...ans/ar-AAH1Nb6

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Atmo

I haven't read anyone cross shopping TRD Camry to 86. Maxima, Accord Sport, Mazda 6 2.5T, and Mercedes C-Class (non-AMG), yes, so far.

They really need to do something about the sluggish 8A/T that's the weakest link in an otherwise admirable effort.

Most every review of models using the 8A/T and posts here mention the problem including the latest blog writeup. It's become a class action lawsuit against Toyota. FTA:

"What I don't like is the eight-speed automatic transmission tuning -- it upshifts far too early to actually allow me to eke out maximum power. I'd be less upset if the manual mode actually offered full manual control, but it doesn't: it panics and upshifts when the cars are driven aggressively, meaning I have to force a reactionary downshift. So annoying."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...ans/ar-AAH1Nb6

I guess they tuned it for fuel economy and they never really tuned it right for performance.

Maybe they should just take the programming from the 8 speeds in the Lexus products.....(those ones are apparently very good)

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I guess they tuned it for fuel economy and they never really tuned it right for performance.

Maybe they should just take the programming from the 8 speeds in the Lexus products.....(those ones are apparently very good)

or fit a manual