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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 05-12-2021, 03:49 AM   #29
PulsarBeeerz
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Originally Posted by WorstCaseOntario View Post
I am aware of the price of these products. You telling me to do more research is exactly what I’m doing right now by asking on these forums. I have talked to many brz owners both with and without FI, and have gotten mixed responses. I was hoping to get an actual answer to the question, and not whatever this was supposed to be...

GReddy discontinued their turbo kits in North America because of knockoffs manufactures. (If you can find one, great)
ITBs make install and tuning even more challenging for little gain and should be run with a standalone ECU in order to be fully optimized. (Not really worth it, but if you love a challenge..) I've only seen two guys with the aforementioned combo. One is sponsored by GReddy and the other sold his car off in a give away last year.
This response was in reference to the parts you mentioned in the first post of the topic you created here with added clarity.

Apart from that an oil cooler and possibly up-rated clutch will aid in reliability and not doing things twice.

Also we have an entire sub-forum about FI https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:23 AM   #30
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I'll tell you, a good header and tune wakes these cars up. I just don't see the need to go FI with all the potential costs and issues and never getting your money back on selling. I'd just get a Cayman if you need more than what the header|tune offers.
Yes but no.
Even on e85 sure it’s a lot better than stock but there’s no ‘wow factor’ I was enjoying my little power increase until I had a ride in my friends Evo 8 tuned for 260kw at the wheels and the boost sensation you get isn’t comparable.

Now I wouldn’t want my 86 to be the same as it’s my daily, but something like a supercharger is extremely appealing just to give it that bit of something. I know I could ‘get another car’ but appearance wise for me there is nothing else that comes close to the 86 for me in my budget.

So I definitely see the appeal of boosting
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:18 AM   #31
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Yes but no.
Even on e85 sure it’s a lot better than stock but there’s no ‘wow factor’ I was enjoying my little power increase until I had a ride in my friends Evo 8 tuned for 260kw at the wheels and the boost sensation you get isn’t comparable.

Now I wouldn’t want my 86 to be the same as it’s my daily, but something like a supercharger is extremely appealing just to give it that bit of something. I know I could ‘get another car’ but appearance wise for me there is nothing else that comes close to the 86 for me in my budget.

So I definitely see the appeal of boosting
just so you know the potential financial and mechanical repercussions with these cars when going FI. The less power you add with an SC the less headaches you’ll have down the road. A lot depends on how you drive the car also.
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:22 AM   #32
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I wouldn't go boosted unless I had money in the bank to replace a blown motor immediately.

10-15k on hand to dabble in boost. 6-10k to get everything set up and another 5k for insurance if it explodes on the maiden voyage.

Last edited by RToyo86; 05-12-2021 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 05-12-2021, 11:14 AM   #33
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I wouldn't go boosted unless I had money in the bank to replace a blown motor immediately.

10-15k on hand to dabble in boost. 6-10k to get everything set up and another 5k for insurance if it explodes on the maiden voyage.
And $3k for a beater to commute in for "downtime!"
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Old 05-12-2021, 12:29 PM   #34
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It's the compression ratio for me... I'm not going to make any friends saying this but, generically speaking, starting a FI build with a 12.5:1 compression ratio is all kinds of wonky. Obviously it can be done, as is done on a regular basis, with the tradeoff being the amount of boost that can be safely run and the total power post installation. If you won a weeklong pass to Toretto's Garage, you'd start with 8.5:1 all day everyday.

In my humble opinion, our 12.5:1 starting point is why there is such a variety pack of endings. I'm in no way suggesting the OP doesn't go FI; however, I do think that @DarkPira7e 's build should be required reading and is the most accurate non-fiction/no B.S. story of going FI I've seen. And he's absolutely correct in saying that there isn't just one recipe but for sure a key ingredient of his build is the new lower compression IAG block. If you feel like you can follow along his path then I would go for it.

Starting from scratch with 8.5:1 and FI is a simpler mathematical equation with greater odds of getting consistent results that can be replicated. Starting with 12.5:1 and adding FI is a matter of playing both ends against the middle and some are better at it than others.

Last edited by therealstoly; 05-12-2021 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 05-18-2021, 09:50 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by WorstCaseOntario View Post
So unfortunately I think most people got the wrong impression with this post, or just didn’t answer the question at all (but not everyone). Not looking for answers like “it depends, some cars are fine others aren’t” because that’s just stupid. I’m trying to be well prepared for it and have everything decently reliable. I do have a second car which I use along side my brz, but I still want to be able to drive it(BRZ) often.

I am more than aware that this car is not designed to have FI, which is exactly why I’m asking what options I have to make it work. I am not looking for crazy boost levels or even reaching the 300whp range, I just feel that the car could use a bit more power. I have the money to spend on professional installs and engine rebuilds if I become overwhelmed, all I care about is doing it with the smallest risk of an engine blowing.
I went the supercharger route, but the risks/benefits are not too dis-similar.

The main issue to keep in mind is that (I'm assuming?) you are starting the process with an already old/worn engine.
Ideally starting with a near new, or perhaps a "refreshed" engine, gives you a more optimal base to start from. I started with a new car that I fitted the SC onto immediately after its "run in" process.

I kept the pulley (boost) at the recommended and conservative size, for the standard engine.
I focussed on engine cooling with uprated radiator and fans, and oil cooling with an additional fan cooled oil cooler.

A skilled tuner is critical... who isn't obsessed with peak power outputs.

But people also overlook the simple (and boring) factors which can give you a fighting chance for reasonable reliability:

* Use top quality fluids and filters, especially oil... spare no expense.
* Change the engine oil, and filter, very regularly ( I change both every 5000km/3000miles).
* Use only premium and high quality fuel.
* Thoroughly and gently warm the car up to temperature... every time you drive it. (and employ a cool down routine too).

** Be engaged with the car, lift the bonnet regularly, drive it hard but be gentle, have mechanical sympathy.

I had around 35000km/21000miles of %100 trouble free fun.

But then I pulled the engine out, stripped it down for inspection (the engine builder said it was still like new inside) before fitting a new "fully built" low compression IAG based engine in order to chase reasonably big power, which meant an absolute truck load of money, time and effort... in order to keep a degree of reliability and drivability.

The FA20 is simply not one of the great engines (if only Toyota and Honda had teamed up to design and supply the engine...) but, BRZ is a lot more fun and playful with a reasonable/moderate power increase to exploit its layout/chassis.
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Old 05-18-2021, 09:58 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealstoly View Post
It's the compression ratio for me... I'm not going to make any friends saying this but, generically speaking, starting a FI build with a 12.5:1 compression ratio is all kinds of wonky. Obviously it can be done, as is done on a regular basis, with the tradeoff being the amount of boost that can be safely run and the total power post installation. If you won a weeklong pass to Toretto's Garage, you'd start with 8.5:1 all day everyday.

In my humble opinion, our 12.5:1 starting point is why there is such a variety pack of endings. I'm in no way suggesting the OP doesn't go FI; however, I do think that @DarkPira7e 's build should be required reading and is the most accurate non-fiction/no B.S. story of going FI I've seen. And he's absolutely correct in saying that there isn't just one recipe but for sure a key ingredient of his build is the new lower compression IAG block. If you feel like you can follow along his path then I would go for it.

Starting from scratch with 8.5:1 and FI is a simpler mathematical equation with greater odds of getting consistent results that can be replicated. Starting with 12.5:1 and adding FI is a matter of playing both ends against the middle and some are better at it than others.
THIS ^ THIS^ THIS^ All day long THIS^
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Old 05-18-2021, 02:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by grumpysnapper View Post
But people also overlook the simple (and boring) factors which can give you a fighting chance for reasonable reliability:

* Use top quality fluids and filters, especially oil... spare no expense.
* Change the engine oil, and filter, very regularly ( I change both every 5000km/3000miles).
* Use only premium and high quality fuel.
* Thoroughly and gently warm the car up to temperature... every time you drive it. (and employ a cool down routine too).

** Be engaged with the car, lift the bonnet regularly, drive it hard but be gentle, have mechanical sympathy.
Love the wording on this - you and I have (had; now that you went built) very similar power goals.
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