First clear look at GR86 / BRZ prototype during testing

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WildCard600

"The main component to TSS is automated pre-collision warning and braking. This pre-collision system (PCS), which includes pedestrian detection, helps to prevent or mitigate a collision by detecting objects ahead of the vehicle."

Crowd surrounds your vehicle at a stoplight/stop sign. The automated braking system won't allow you to drive away as they break your windows and drag you out of the car.

Beginning to think that some people are condemning this system with absolutely no experience using it and not truly understanding how it works.

These systems only kick in if there is no change in input from the driver. A simple touch of the gas, brakes or steering will deactivate it instantly. You need to mow down a group of people just hit the gas and vary the steering. The car will scream at you but will still do it. I was able to run down several boxes while playing with the system. It removes the risk of hitting something by inaction but still hands back control so deliberate maneuvers can happen. It is not autonomous so will still obey driver input if it changes at all so you can maneuver out of situations.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

If someone who owns an Aston Martin tells you that they modded their ECU....dont be so shocked lol.

the new ECU has NOS!

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Beginning to think that some people are condemning this system with absolutely no experience using it and not truly understanding how it works.

These systems only kick in if there is no change in input from the driver. A simple touch of the gas, brakes or steering will deactivate it instantly. You need to mow down a group of people just hit the gas and vary the steering. The car will scream at you but will still do it. I was able to run down several boxes while playing with the system. It removes the risk of hitting something by inaction but still hands back control so deliberate maneuvers can happen. It is not autonomous so will still obey driver input if it changes at all so you can maneuver out of situations.

But Tcoat, that slight hesitation could make you ded.
My Corolla XSE Hatchback had all of the TSS features, and the main complaint I had was how aggressive the lane departure warning was. It would also get confused at times if the road lines weren’t clear enough. I don’t think there was a way to adjust that. That system would destroy so much fun in the twins.
I know this tech is always evolving and getting better, and it’s impressive how it can react faster than a person, yet remain mostly unobtrusive.
If the 2nd gen twins have Subaru’s Eyesight I really hope you can switch off features you don’t want. And stay off when you turn the car off and on again. I love that I can hop in my FRS and just drive. The only button we ever need to hit is Sport or Track mode.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JesseG

But Tcoat, that slight hesitation could make you ded.
My Corolla XSE Hatchback had all of the TSS features, and the main complaint I had was how aggressive the lane departure warning was. It would also get confused at times if the road lines weren’t clear enough. I don’t think there was a way to adjust that. That system would destroy so much fun in the twins.
I know this tech is always evolving and getting better, and it’s impressive how it can react faster than a person, yet remain mostly unobtrusive.
If the 2nd gen twins have Subaru’s Eyesight I really hope you can switch off features you don’t want. And stay off when you turn the car off and on again. I love that I can hop in my FRS and just drive. The only button we ever need to hit is Sport or Track mode.


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Meh If that half second of braking makes you dead you were not paying enough attention in the first place. It won't even kick in unless there is immediate danger.
Even when turned on the slight nudge of the wheel the lane control gives is hardly even noticeable. You guys make it out like it takes over complete control and starts doing doughnuts or something.
Even if it turns back on when you start the car is the 2 seconds it takes to push a button really that inconvenient? People will mess with hooking up phones and play around getting the music they want but heaven forbid you have to push a button to turn something off.

Of all the features of the Eyesite I feel the lane control is the second most useless (right after the "car ahead has moved" chime) and really only exists for the sake of distracted drivers but it is not all that intrusive.

I would pay extra for blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise without even a second thought. The back up motion warning would be an absolute godsend when trying to reverse out from between two pickup trucks which is something I do at least twice a day! None of these things impact your driving of the car in any possible negative fashion so what is wrong with having them? And don't give me that
purity of a sports car" line of shit unless you are going to pull all the other modern tech that makes them work as well. Where would half these guys be without their nice little ECU to tune?

I dorve a "pure" sportscar for a while and although it was fun it was not the joy people seem to think it would be in day to day driving.


You want "pure" pick up one of these and get back to me:

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Beginning to think that some people are condemning this system with absolutely no experience using it and not truly understanding how it works.

These systems only kick in if there is no change in input from the driver. A simple touch of the gas, brakes or steering will deactivate it instantly. You need to mow down a group of people just hit the gas and vary the steering. The car will scream at you but will still do it. I was able to run down several boxes while playing with the system. It removes the risk of hitting something by inaction but still hands back control so deliberate maneuvers can happen. It is not autonomous so will still obey driver input if it changes at all so you can maneuver out of situations.

Guilty.

Toyota didn't have a obstacle course setup with foam blocks to simulate a riot situation when we bought my wife's car with TSS.

Still have to admit i'm not entirely comfortable with all this fancy tech that is becoming standard in newer cars. I hope the systems have redundancy/bypasses so the vehicle isn't a useless brick when they start failing in 20 years.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

< snip >
I dorve a "pure" sportscar for a while and although it was fun it was not the joy people seem to think it would be in day to day driving.
< snip >

Then you drove the wrong car or just don't get what sports cars are all about.
My brothers had Minis, Midgets, Sprites, a TR3 and an MGB. Drove them winter and summer. I myself had a 1974 Lotus Europa as my daily driver for almost three years. The wife had a 1964 Austin Healy Sprite Mark III that she drove daily in the summer and on good days in the winter. She also had a 1976 Mini 1000 D/D.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[StE92ve]

With all this discussion about Eyesight, surprised 86 owners aren't heaping praise on the current rearview mirror, which in development was called Hindsight......

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Meh If that half second of braking makes you dead you were not paying enough attention in the first place. It won't even kick in unless there is immediate danger.
Even when turned on the slight nudge of the wheel the lane control gives is hardly even noticeable. You guys make it out like it takes over complete control and starts doing doughnuts or something.
Even if it turns back on when you start the car is the 2 seconds it takes to push a button really that inconvenient? People will mess with hooking up phones and play around getting the music they want but heaven forbid you have to push a button to turn something off.

Of all the features of the Eyesite I feel the lane control is the second most useless (right after the "car ahead has moved" chime) and really only exists for the sake of distracted drivers but it is not all that intrusive.

I would pay extra for blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise without even a second thought. The back up motion warning would be an absolute godsend when trying to reverse out from between two pickup trucks which is something I do at least twice a day! None of these things impact your driving of the car in any possible negative fashion so what is wrong with having them? And don't give me that
purity of a sports car" line of shit unless you are going to pull all the other modern tech that makes them work as well. Where would half these guys be without their nice little ECU to tune?

I dorve a "pure" sportscar for a while and although it was fun it was not the joy people seem to think it would be in day to day driving.


You want "pure" pick up one of these and get back to me:

Speaking for myself, I would be so disappointed if Lane Departure Warning/Lane Keep warning was on the 2nd gen twins. Or if you couldn’t permanently shut it off. There are too many variables with painted road lines, and it gets confused. Feeling the car trying to nudge you in a direction you don’t want to go is incredibly annoying. You can override it but it beeps and gets upset. There is an on-ramp I use a lot with a slight twist in it. With my Corolla HB it would try to nudge me to the left EVERY time, but I wanted to maintain a straighter line. It’s annoying AF. With my FRS, it goes....big shock....exactly where I want it to go!!
This isn’t about having the ultimate purist driving experience. I understand all of the modern tech that makes cars safer, etc. What I absolutely don’t want is the car taking “control” in a situation that I don’t want it to. These systems make mistakes, they glitch, they get confused. People do the same of course, but I want control of my car. How many Tesla’s have driven themselves into concrete barriers because of a variation in the road it couldn’t react to? Those are driver error also because you are supposed to keep your hands on the wheel and stay alert. I’m not an anti technology person, it’s all around us and part of our every day lives. But there are still some things I want to do myself. I like manual cars, actual books, mechanical watches, because it’s something you can put your hands on and feel something. I know eventually everyone’s lives will be “lived” in VR, but that sounds so depressing to me. Self driving cars, holy sh*t, I don’t want to be around for that.

I also want to add, I agree that some features like backup warning, and even pre-collision detection can be life saving features. I’m all for that. I *think* with a driver focused car like the 86/BRZ they will keep the “intrusive” tech to a minimum. I really hope so anyway. And YES it’s annoying to turn features off every time you drive. Physical buttons do help a lot to minimize that I agree. So if there is a Lane Departure On/Off button that is better than going into another freaking menu.

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[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Speaking for myself, I would be so disappointed if Lane Departure Warning/Lane Keep warning was on the 2nd gen twins. Or if you couldn’t permanently shut it off. There are too many variables with painted road lines, and it gets confused. Feeling the car trying to nudge you in a direction you don’t want to go is incredibly annoying. You can override it but it beeps and gets upset. There is an on-ramp I use a lot with a slight twist in it. With my Corolla HB it would try to nudge me to the left EVERY time, but I wanted to maintain a straighter line. It’s annoying AF. With my FRS, it goes....big shock....exactly where I want it to go!!
This isn’t about having the ultimate purist driving experience. I understand all of the modern tech that makes cars safer, etc. What I absolutely don’t want is the car taking “control” in a situation that I don’t want it to. These systems make mistakes, they glitch, they get confused. People do the same of course, but I want control of my car. How many Tesla’s have driven themselves into concrete barriers because of a variation in the road it couldn’t react to? Those are driver error also because you are supposed to keep your hands on the wheel and stay alert. I’m not an anti technology person, it’s all around us and part of our every day lives. But there are still some things I want to do myself. I like manual cars, actual books, mechanical watches, because it’s something you can put your hands on and feel something. I know eventually everyone’s lives will be “lived” in VR, but that sounds so depressing to me. Self driving cars, holy sh*t, I don’t want to be around for that.

I also want to add, I agree that some features like backup warning, and even pre-collision detection can be life saving features. I’m all for that. I *think* with a driver focused car like the 86/BRZ they will keep the “intrusive” tech to a minimum. I really hope so anyway. And YES it’s annoying to turn features off every time you drive. Physical buttons do help a lot to minimize that I agree. So if there is a Lane Departure On/Off button that is better than going into another freaking menu.

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The warning is just a warning, and the steering assist only works with the cruise control on(and you turn it on). At least, that's the way the Legacy we have is.

[Sasquachulator]

my BMW lane departure warning just vibrates the steering wheel.
OF course its a 2017 model so its got a more basic setup (doesnt try to steer you back). In fact most of my safety features are just warning lights and vibrations (the more complex automated features were implemented after my model year....we just got the basic functionality.....the first versions if you will)

I think i prefer these more basic systems so i wont end up fighting the car for control.

We do have the ability to turn it off.

And yeah they dont really work right sometimes. LAne departure for example does not work in winter at all.

My Scion IM gots none of that (they were added after 2017 when it became a corolla IM)

Old school baby! no need for the technology to drive for me

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by dragoontwo

The warning is just a warning, and the steering assist only works with the cruise control on(and you turn it on). At least, that's the way the Legacy we have is.

That’s not how Toyota’s lane departure warning and lane keep works, but the Subaru one might be different. It’s active with or without cruise on. I think you can adjust the sensitivity, and turn it off. If I remember correctly turning off one feature would also disable others. I just don’t want my car making any steering adjustments for me. Pre collision warning is ok, especially if you can adjust the sensitivity. I still had a few WTF moments with pre collision in my Corolla. They are all just steps towards automating driving. I’m not saying self driving cars will take over in a few years, that technology will need a lot more testing. And there are also “decisions” that need to be programmed in that could actually cause more harm in real world situations.


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by JesseG

That’s not how Toyota’s lane departure warning and lane keep works, but the Subaru one might be different. It’s active with or without cruise on. I think you can adjust the sensitivity, and turn it off. If I remember correctly turning off one feature would also disable others. I just don’t want my car making any steering adjustments for me. Pre collision warning is ok, especially if you can adjust the sensitivity. I still had a few WTF moments with pre collision in my Corolla. They are all just steps towards automating driving. I’m not saying self driving cars will take over in a few years, that technology will need a lot more testing. And there are also “decisions” that need to be programmed in that could actually cause more harm in real world situations.

*Lane keep in Toyota’s suite of safety technologies DOES automatically move the steering wheel. You feel the adjustment through the steering wheel, and like I said you can override it, but you get warning chimes and lights in the display. It’s f’ng annoying. The rest of TSS works really well.


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[JesseG]

I quoted myself somehow, sorry


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

my BMW lane departure warning just vibrates the steering wheel.
OF course its a 2017 model so its got a more basic setup (doesnt try to steer you back). In fact most of my safety features are just warning lights and vibrations (the more complex automated features were implemented after my model year....we just got the basic functionality.....the first versions if you will)

I think i prefer these more basic systems so i wont end up fighting the car for control.

We do have the ability to turn it off.

And yeah they dont really work right sometimes. LAne departure for example does not work in winter at all.

My Scion IM gots none of that (they were added after 2017 when it became a corolla IM)

Old school baby! no need for the technology to drive for me

I always really liked the Scion IM! I bought a 2019 Corolla XSE Hatch (with a manual!) and it was a great little car. I kind of wish I had kept it, they are hard to find with a manual. BUT, it’s not nearly as fun to drive as the FR-S.

I know ze Germans are always on the cutting edge of technology, which is very cool. It sounds like the older BMW system was not very intrusive, maybe just a little annoying. And TBH if you have lane keep tech in a car, it makes sense that it would adjust the steering position. I trust myself more to handle all the crazy variables you see in every day driving. And like you said, it sucks to feel like you are fighting with the car. I’m the driver, obey me!


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