Second Gen Swap? FA24

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

All torque you say?

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You want torque?
here is the swap for you.


Cummins R2.8 Turbo Diesel Specifications:

• Horsepower: 161 hp (120 kW)
• Torque: 307 lb-ft (420 Nm)
• Displacement: 171 ci (2800 cc)
• Cylinders: 4
• Compression: 16.9:1
• Bore: 3.70 in (94 mm)
• Stroke: 3.94 in (100 mm)
• Dimensions: 28.3"h x 25"w x 25.1"d
• Aspiration: Turbocharged & Aftercooled
• Fuel System: Bosch Electronic
• Weight: 503 lb (228 kg)

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You want torque?
here is the swap for you.


Cummins R2.8 Turbo Diesel Specifications:

• Horsepower: 161 hp (120 kW)
• Torque: 307 lb-ft (420 Nm)
• Displacement: 171 ci (2800 cc)
• Cylinders: 4
• Compression: 16.9:1
• Bore: 3.70 in (94 mm)
• Stroke: 3.94 in (100 mm)
• Dimensions: 28.3"h x 25"w x 25.1"d
• Aspiration: Turbocharged & Aftercooled
• Fuel System: Bosch Electronic
• Weight: 503 lb (228 kg)

300lb/ft is all? I'm doing better than that. I've got 4 more cylinders though

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[Tomm]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If anybody was going to do this swap (if it is even feasible as Alex pointed out above) then they would be better off to wait and see what they do to this engine series for the WRX/STI.
Wouldn't change the issues of the swap but may at least be worth doing.

Agreed, I just like unconventional swaps.... But your comment ab truck motors makes me want to drop my 2uz in my FRS.

[Stonehorsw]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All low end torque designed for low revs and a CVT tranny. For all intents and purposes a truck engine designed for heavy vehicles. The paper HP and torque numbers look nice but in a sports car application that version of the engine would suck balls.

Can’t you rearrange the torque curves with updated header and tune?
Do you think something more drastic is needed? Cams?

So, would it ve better to wait till wrx/sti versions of the FA24?

Ford, as example, manages very well the same engine configuration across mustang, f150 and CD6 Explorer

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

Can’t you rearrange the torque curves with updated header and tune?
Do you think something more drastic is needed? Cams?

So, would it ve better to wait till wrx/sti versions of the FA24?

Ford, as example, manages very well the same engine configuration across mustang, f150 and CD6 Explorer

It would take some tweaking. None of your Ford examples are exactly the same engine they are al slightly different enough for the purpose they serve.
I am going to stand by my statement that if they couldn't make the old WRX/STi engines work well in the twins I see no reason why this one would all of a sudden be a great swap.
Can't think of the Gen 2 as the same car as the gen one since there are significant enough changes.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Stonehorsw

Can’t you rearrange the torque curves with updated header and tune?
Do you think something more drastic is needed? Cams?

So, would it ve better to wait till wrx/sti versions of the FA24?

Ford, as example, manages very well the same engine configuration across mustang, f150 and CD6 Explorer

I'm guessing the WRX would stay with the FA20F and the STI will likely go with a beefy FA24F, but the motor might not drop into the 86 because of the oil pan, because the under-mount turbo causes interference, and because of things like where the starter mounts up. The internals will be stronger, but the motor will definitely be lower compression for pump gas, so it probably won't build power as fast, it will require more boost, nor have as good of gas mileage.

[Lantanafrs2]

Probably be cheaper to buy the new car.

[jflogerzi]

I would just part out and sell and jump to second gen. Way less hassles. Just my 2 cents

[new2subaru]

Jump to a new car? No challenge there. A motor out of a wrecked car won't be that bad and most everyone will have there Gen 1 paid for.

30K or 2-4K and some elbow grease? (Guessing at price before anyone gets their panty's in a not)

[Capt Spaulding]

It's still way to early to say with certainty, but it seems to me the best swap will be your Gen 1 ignition switch into a Gen 2 and use your old key.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Jump to a new car? No challenge there. A motor out of a wrecked car won't be that bad and most everyone will have there Gen 1 paid for.

30K or 2-4K and some elbow grease? (Guessing at price before anyone gets their panty's in a not)

Just supercharge the old engine.

Unless you value your labor at like $2/hour then go for it I guess.

Will be curious to see how the new engine takes boost at 13.5:1 CR.

And you don't have to wait until 2022 for engines to start hitting the junk yards.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Just supercharge the old engine.

Unless you value your labor at like $2/hour then go for it I guess.

Will be curious to see how the new engine takes boost at 13.5:1 CR.

And you don't have to wait until 2022 for engines to start hitting the junk yards.

I'd prefer to stay NA and track the car a lot. I figure if I blow and engine or just wear one out why not swap it, if it's doable.



The labour part doesn't bother me. It's a good learning experience and hobby.

[dpfarr]

I do not know the details of this so forgive the ignorance.

Wouldn’t this be the platform to do a cam tune with?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Just supercharge the old engine.

Unless you value your labor at like $2/hour then go for it I guess.

Will be curious to see how the new engine takes boost at 13.5:1 CR.

And you don't have to wait until 2022 for engines to start hitting the junk yards.

I don't know what new, anti-knock tech might be utilized on this new engine, but the 13.5:1 CR is pretty high for boost. Boost limits will likely be lower than the limits for the FA20D, but this engine might have new tech and the benefits of the extra 400cc of displacement and the higher compression to make the extra power, so perhaps there will be modest power gains or neutral gains on pump gas. Even if the static compression is high, the dynamic compression can be lower.


On E85, people are running really high boost levels for the FA20D without issue, and I am not aware of what the boost limit is on the FA20D or what it could be on the FA24D. I think anyone looking for 500whp or less will find that the higher compression isn't an issue, and that it is an advantage for faster spooling, so more power across the rev range, along with better fuel economy over a conventional booster car. The downside will likely be much more heat from the higher compression, so tracking a boosted car might require more cooling issues, and there will likely be more variance between weather conditions, as timing gets pulled on hot days.


The popularity of modifications typically follow an expense bell curve, in which, the most basic and least expensive mods are the most popular and the most expensive mods are the least popular. Diving deeper, the majority of people will do a catback then there are the ones doing full exhaust and a tune with maybe a CAI then there are the ones adding E85 to that setup then FI on pump gas then FI on E85 then FI on a built motor w/ or w/o E85, but typically it is with E85, and in that subset, there is a spectrum to the depths of the builds from piston/rod motors to built heads, closed deck, large stud setups. With that said, adding exhaust mods and E85 should yield decent gains with the high compression. FI on boost gas with the FA24D will have modest gains over the FA20D, if any. FI on a stock block with E85 should net 400-450whp with the higher compression and larger displacement and proportionally stronger motor unless they went cheap like using the same size rods as the FA20D (unlikely). This is going to be the sweet spot because the extra 50-100whp over the prior limit means the car is now in a new power bracket capable of competing with much more powerful cars. Anyone going for a built motor will likely want 500+whp (unless they just want more reliability or better pump gas gains), and they will likely want to drop compression to 10.5:1 on E85 (or something like that), so they can raise boost, while significantly lowering heat, whether that is to hit a power level or reliably track the car.