2017 Fiat 124 - The best MX-5 (? or !)

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by f0rge

If the 124 Abarth is under $30k i'll be shocked. Hell if the regular 124 is under $30k i'll be really surprised.

I think the 124 "comfort" model with the 1.4L i4T will be about $30k on the nose and come with most of the Miata "Grand Touring" options. The most important option being the LSD. Everything else is an easy add.

The 124 Abarth should be between $35-$40k and have an options list similar to the 500 Abarth's (mostly comfort/convenience options), meaning a person could probably swing the 4C powered 124 for about $37K base and $42K loaded.

If this all ends up being close, what's crazy is that the 124 Abarth will have the same powerplant as the 4C but run about 200 lbs lighter but for $20K less!

[thill]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I think the 124 "comfort" model with the 1.4L i4T will be about $30k on the nose and come with most of the Miata "Grand Touring" options. The most important option being the LSD. Everything else is an easy add.

The 124 Abarth should be between $35-$40k and have an options list similar to the 500 Abarth's (mostly comfort/convenience options), meaning a person could probably swing the 4C powered 124 for about $37K base and $42K loaded.

If this all ends up being close, what's crazy is that the 124 Abarth will have the same powerplant as the 4C but run about 200 lbs lighter but for $20K less!

It would be a an incredible value for performance for sure. The 4C is so expensive because of the carbon fiber tub and all the other expensive lightweight materials. Fiat is taking advantage of the work Mazda did and the car is relatively inexpensive.

I think I like some of the Fiat 124 renders better than the MX-5 as well.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Fiat 124 Abarth CONFIRMED
http://www.evo.co.uk/abarth/16370/fiat-124-spider-will-spawn-hotter-abarth-roadster from the Alpha 4C - 1.75L i4T - 237 HP / 258 TQ (could be de-tuned from the factory to as low as 200 HP, but easily re-tuned above that 237). Curb weight 2300 lbs.

Also noted, the base (or "comfort") 124 will indeed get the 1.4L multi-air turbo which (with a tune) will be a performance bargain sleeper.

Total speculation dude, might as well toss in an AWD turbo BRZ rumor for good measure.

From the article:

Altavilla says there will be two versions of the 124 Spider – a ‘comfortable’ Fiat model, and a more ‘extreme’ Abarth, as depicted here in renders by Poblete.

An engine hasn’t been confirmed at this stage, though Alfa Romeo’s 1.75-litre turbocharged petrol from the 4C is a candidate, likely downtuned from its current 237bhp output to nearer 200bhp.

Since we're just making stuff up we could be seeing a much lower spec car than you're hoping for with the 1.4L MultiAir at 165+hp being the 'Abarth' model and the ~130hp engine from the 500 Turbo as the "comfort" version.


I also highly doubt the 2,300 lb claim, the ND is currently hovering around there with a very concentrated effort at weight loss (gram strategy) and a relatively non-complex NA 2L engine, is a pneumatic valvetrain turbo engine really going to slide in lighter? Is FCA going to spend a bunch of money on lightweight components for a Fiat when they seem to have trouble moving <$20k econo-boxes?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The thing that concerns me about Multiair is that it can potentially drop the valve against the seat very hard with a solenoid failure which the other variable lift systems aren't capable of doing. Not sure how much damage that could cause though.

Probably less than a timing chain/belt failure?

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Total speculation dude, might as well toss in an AWD turbo BRZ rumor for good measure.

Of course it is.

But it's not grabbing anything from thin air (unliike most of the misinformed AWD BRZ knucklehead posts we've seen). False equivalency dude. Fiat has strongly signaled the predictions I posted.

From the article:

Since we're just making stuff up we could be seeing a much lower spec car than you're hoping for with the 1.4L MultiAir at 165+hp being the 'Abarth' model and the ~130hp engine from the 500 Turbo as the "comfort" version.

This could happen, in Europe (where 500 Abarth models are much lower powered). In the U.S. probably not. In North America we'll get the more powerful engines just as we do today.

I also highly doubt the 2,300 lb claim, the ND is currently hovering around there with a very concentrated effort at weight loss (gram strategy) and a relatively non-complex NA 2L engine, is a pneumatic valvetrain turbo engine really going to slide in lighter? Is FCA going to spend a bunch of money on lightweight components for a Fiat when they seem to have trouble moving <$20k econo-boxes?

What you're claiming won't happen, Fiat regularly does with the 500 Abarth. Performance variants that are lower in weight, with upgraded parts with more power. Two variants comes with a roll cage and one even with a rear seat delete. There have been at least 4 performance variants of the 500 Abarth and many cosmetic variants. The performance variants are substantially uprated over the Euro 500 Abarth:

• The 695 Biposto
• The 695 Competizione,
• The 595 50th Anniversary,
• and the 695 Tributo Maserati.

Don't hate, "Thread Killer" appreciate

[chulooz]

Nothing has been more speculative than the pricing; Fiat isnt crazy but even you admitted a $40k 1.7l at 2300lbs is crazy. It seems like whatever they will build is going to be a fun ride.

[airjonny]

Ah the Miata Mazda refuses to give us. My guess is that they'll just give us the Abarth 500 engine. Can't wait to see how it looks.

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This could happen, in Europe (where 500 Abarth models are much lower powered). In the U.S. probably not. In North America we'll get the more powerful engines just as we do today.

The Abarth in the US is 160 hp. I agree with strat, the 124 base will have 130 hp, the 124 Abarth will have 160 or a handful more, both using the 1.4 turbo engine.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This could happen, in Europe (where 500 Abarth models are much lower powered). In the U.S. probably not. In North America we'll get the more powerful engines just as we do today.

What you're claiming won't happen, Fiat regularly does with the 500 Abarth. Performance variants that are lower in weight, with upgraded parts with more power. Two variants comes with a roll cage and one even with a rear seat delete. There have been at least 4 performance variants of the 500 Abarth and many cosmetic variants. The performance variants are substantially uprated over the Euro 500 Abarth:

• The 695 Biposto
• The 695 Competizione,
• The 595 50th Anniversary,
• and the 695 Tributo Maserati.

Don't hate, "Thread Killer" appreciate

lol totally thin air, none of those special editions are available in North America and all are outrageously expensive with small production figures, moreover the 500 Abarth is the heaviest of the 500 line available in North America at nearly 200 lbs heavier than a base 500 "pop".

I never said it was impossible, I just doubt it's likely. Hell it's possible that the Abarth 124 will be limited to the ~130 hp motor and the base 124 with 100 horses, it is after all a Fiat, a company that publicly wanted to chase 'largest automaker by volume' you don't do that with a $30k roadster, but a ~$20k roadster would probably move quite a few units... Not to mention stick with the heritage that the Fiat 124 was never a speed demon, although looking at wiki the ~126hp Abarth Rally was probably a real hoot at <2,000 lbs.

I've seen too many rumors the past three years paying attention to modern cars, a 200+ hp, 2,300 lb roadster from anybody not Lotus or Caterham is unheard of, much less one readily available in US dealerships with an actual network behind it at anything less than $50k.

I'll file it right next to all those turbo Miata rumors from last year, that even had a published video from Mazda to fuel the fire.

http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-mazda-m...ged-1599646738

Although I wouldn't mind seeing these "strong signals" that FCA is thinking about building such a car, but please don't link back to the same article we've been discussing.



Also, the Euro 500 Abarth SS reviewed on Top Gear about 6 years ago has the same power outputs and a lighter curb weight than the U.S. version along with slightly different suspension tuning. At least that was the story in 2012 when it was released here and I was shopping for one.

P.S. the thread killer is not malicious, rather lamenting as I seem to kill many a lively debate with my... well, I've been accused at not having any friends and being kicked out/not invited to parties by other posters.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lol totally thin air...

P.S. the thread killer is not malicious, rather lamenting as I seem to kill many a lively debate with my... well, I've been accused at not having any friends and being kicked out/not invited to parties by other posters.

I won't bother refuting any of your speculation that you feel is stronger than mine. I've heard enough from Fiat to believe otherwise, and arguing that point is a fool's folly. Your post script on the other hand... now why would someone say such a mean thing?

[chulooz]

"heard enough from fiat"

[Purdue FR-S]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Time to let it go. The S2K was indeed a milestone, but it's gone.

Never! S2k Love 4Ever

[rice_classic]

Would rather have Mazda reliability than Fiat reliability. Also, would rather NA than FI.

Why? Because eventually I will be forced into FI because that's the trend but until then I'm gonna hang on for dear life to what I love.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Would rather have Mazda reliability than Fiat reliability. Also, would rather NA than FI.

Why? Because eventually I will be forced into FI because that's the trend but until then I'm gonna hang on for dear life to what I love.

ORLY?
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/20/f...quality-award/

Times are a changin'.

Agreed, would rather NA if possible. That's where that new Ferrari dervied V6 FCA is sprinkling in their performance lineup is so appealing (Alpha 6C ftw!).