FR-S - AT nearly stalls when stopping - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

WryGuy · 05-26-2016, 03:32 AM

Greetings,
- 2014 FR-S, stock auto transmission.
- Stock drive train.
- TRD catback (in case it matter)
- No ecu flash (not yet but probably soon)

When coming to a stop the revs dip hard sub 500 and makes me think car is about to stall out. (It doesn't. Or, at least, it hasn't yet)

Happens most when slowing "quickly" from a medium to high gear. (Normal quick in stop go traffic or a stop light, _not_ quickly in sense of panic or leaving a strip of rubber behind.)

Feels like the AT stays in 1st (or maybe second) just a bit too long before the clutch kicks to idle at a stop light (for instance). Almost as if the AT is under orders to cycle down fully through each gear from 6 to 1 before disengaging to idle at rest regardless of the fact the car is already at zero mph.

Is this just the nature of the FR-S AT?
Side effect of catback mod without Ecu flash?
(seems unrelated but maybe)
Or is something abnormal going on?

DaJo · 05-26-2016, 04:56 AM

It has been a issue since the day it rolled out of FHI back in 2012...

Apparently it's a cam timing sensor... It can be fixed with a reflash and/or a tune...

Cheers!

soulreapersteve · 05-26-2016, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WryGuy

Greetings,
- 2014 FR-S, stock auto transmission.
- Stock drive train.
- TRD catback (in case it matter)
- No ecu flash (not yet but probably soon)

When coming to a stop the revs dip hard sub 500 and makes me think car is about to stall out. (It doesn't. Or, at least, it hasn't yet)

Happens most when slowing "quickly" from a medium to high gear. (Normal quick in stop go traffic or a stop light, _not_ quickly in sense of panic or leaving a strip of rubber behind.)

Feels like the AT stays in 1st (or maybe second) just a bit too long before the clutch kicks to idle at a stop light (for instance). Almost as if the AT is under orders to cycle down fully through each gear from 6 to 1 before disengaging to idle at rest regardless of the fact the car is already at zero mph.

Is this just the nature of the FR-S AT?
Side effect of catback mod without Ecu flash?
(seems unrelated but maybe)
Or is something abnormal going on?

Swapping the catback does not warrant a flash of the ecu.

mazeroni · 05-26-2016, 10:16 AM

Manual cars do this when slowing and engaging(edit) the clutch close to idle. It is worse with the AC on. The car outright dips under 500 and stutters, you hear the fans quiet, then the revs jump to 1k before slowly, very slowly falling.

In before ECU flash is pointless... unless you go E85, I guess.

Spacemane969 · 05-26-2016, 06:24 PM

I want to kind of hijack this thread and discuss a sort of opposite problem that I've been wanting to ask about for a long time. While in manual mode I always had jerkiness that lunges me forward, from 2nd to 1st gear due to the transmission rev-matching. At that speed and RPM I'm not sure why the engineers decided to still include rev matching...So to get a smooth transition from 2nd to full stop I have just let the ECU do the work without switching into 1st at all. Hopefully this isn't really damaging to the engine as I figured it would calculate and shift the same way in NORMAL mode anyways. And I'm talking anywhere from 12 mph down to 7 or 8 I get this jerkiness so there seems to be no sweet spot.

Does anyone else do the same?

soulreapersteve · 05-26-2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemane969

I want to kind of hijack this thread and discuss a sort of opposite problem that I've been wanting to ask about for a long time. While in manual mode I always had jerkiness that lunges me forward, from 2nd to 1st gear due to the transmission rev-matching. At that speed and RPM I'm not sure why the engineers decided to still include rev matching...So to get a smooth transition from 2nd to full stop I have just let the ECU do the work without switching into 1st at all. Hopefully this isn't really damaging to the engine as I figured it would calculate and shift the same way in NORMAL mode anyways. And I'm talking anywhere from 12 mph down to 7 or 8 I get this jerkiness so there seems to be no sweet spot.

Does anyone else do the same?

Not damaging at all. People say to simply let the computer shift down from 2nd to first but I do it because habits developed and pretty much automatic now... (no pun intended).

Anyways, I was experiencing rev-match issues and when I got a TCM reflash from dealership, it fixed any issues I was having (jerkiness, rev-match, extreme hard shifts). Yours is a 2013 but bring it to the dealership and try to get a reflash to see.. doesn't hurt to try.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96615

geezerbrzeezer · 05-26-2016, 08:38 PM

Yes, always shift from second to first with a tap, because if you let the car do it, you will hear . . .

. . . nothing.

When you perform the tap yourself at your selected, elevated rpm range, you will hear the most beautiful noise from even the simplest exhaust upgrade.

It will put a smile on your face, brighten your mood, obviate the nuisance posed by those pesky red lights, and garner much attention from the fellow motorists and pedestrians to whom you've just announced your arrival.

FRSBRZGT86FAN · 05-26-2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulreapersteve

Not damaging at all. People say to simply let the computer shift down from 2nd to first but I do it because habits developed and pretty much automatic now... (no pun intended).

Anyways, I was experiencing rev-match issues and when I got a TCM reflash from dealership, it fixed any issues I was having (jerkiness, rev-match, extreme hard shifts). Yours is a 2013 but bring it to the dealership and try to get a reflash to see.. doesn't hurt to try.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96615

@WryGuy go to different dealers till they do this, it's well worth it, the shifts are dual clutch crisp now.

Spacemane969 · 05-26-2016, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

@WryGuy go to different dealers till they do this, it's well worth it, the shifts are dual clutch crisp now.

This is the first time I've heard of this flash..hope I can get lucky at the dealer. thanks for sharing.

soulreapersteve · 05-26-2016, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemane969

This is the first time I've heard of this flash..hope I can get lucky at the dealer. thanks for sharing.

Word of advice to up chance of them looking at your car:

Tell them you are suffering through idle hunt. Do not tell them you are experiencing hard shifts, rev match stuff, etc. They will become really confused and say "its normal". Trust us

WryGuy · 05-26-2016, 10:51 PM

Ouch.
Goal: obtain TCM flash

"idle hunt" is magical passphrase.

Good to know!

By chance, is this something fixable thru OFT?
(edit: is this the "smoother idle" others have described being fixed by OFT flash of the Ecu? Or is the TCM flash entirely separate?)

FRSBRZGT86FAN · 05-27-2016, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WryGuy

Ouch.
Goal: obtain TCM flash

"idle hunt" is magical passphrase.

Good to know!

By chance, is this something fixable thru OFT?
(edit: is this the "smoother idle" others have described being fixed by OFT flash of the Ecu? Or is the TCM flash entirely separate?)

OFT can smooth the idle with the latest tunes vs the OEM, however the shifting and rough idle is entirely TCM specific nothing can flash to that except techstream.

FX86 · 05-27-2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geezerbrzeezer

Yes, always shift from second to first with a tap, because if you let the car do it, you will hear . . .

. . . nothing.

When you perform the tap yourself at your selected, elevated rpm range, you will hear the most beautiful noise from even the simplest exhaust upgrade.

It will put a smile on your face, brighten your mood, obviate the nuisance posed by those pesky red lights, and garner much attention from the fellow motorists and pedestrians to whom you've just announced your arrival.

i love dropping it to fist....that VROOOOOOM and everybody be like

05-26-2016, 03:32 AM	#1
WryGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Drives: 2014 FR-S Argento, 2003 Celica GT Location: SoCal Posts: 118 Thanks: 85 Thanked 106 Times in 48 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	FR-S - AT nearly stalls when stopping Greetings, - 2014 FR-S, stock auto transmission. - Stock drive train. - TRD catback (in case it matter) - No ecu flash (not yet but probably soon) When coming to a stop the revs dip hard sub 500 and makes me think car is about to stall out. (It doesn't. Or, at least, it hasn't yet) Happens most when slowing "quickly" from a medium to high gear. (Normal quick in stop go traffic or a stop light, _not_ quickly in sense of panic or leaving a strip of rubber behind.) Feels like the AT stays in 1st (or maybe second) just a bit too long before the clutch kicks to idle at a stop light (for instance). Almost as if the AT is under orders to cycle down fully through each gear from 6 to 1 before disengaging to idle at rest regardless of the fact the car is already at zero mph. Is this just the nature of the FR-S AT? Side effect of catback mod without Ecu flash? (seems unrelated but maybe) Or is something abnormal going on?

05-26-2016, 04:56 AM	#2
DaJo FT86Club Vancouver Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: BRZ Sport-Tech; Drove: MR-S, AE86 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 2,532 Thanks: 391 Thanked 1,178 Times in 633 Posts Mentioned: 16 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	It has been a issue since the day it rolled out of FHI back in 2012... Apparently it's a cam timing sensor... It can be fixed with a reflash and/or a tune... Cheers! __________________ 1984 AE86 BT 20V 5MT 2007-2012 2000 MR-S 5MT 2010-2012 2013 BRZ Sport-Tech 6AT Since '12 (OEM+ STI tS Build) 2015 Lexus IS250 AWD F-Sport 2 2015-2018 2018 Lexus NX300 F-Sport 3 Since '18

05-26-2016, 10:16 AM	#4
mazeroni Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S Series 10 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,116 Thanks: 600 Thanked 1,017 Times in 512 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Manual cars do this when slowing and engaging(edit) the clutch close to idle. It is worse with the AC on. The car outright dips under 500 and stutters, you hear the fans quiet, then the revs jump to 1k before slowly, very slowly falling. In before ECU flash is pointless... unless you go E85, I guess. Last edited by mazeroni; 05-26-2016 at 04:17 PM.

05-26-2016, 10:51 PM	#11
WryGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Drives: 2014 FR-S Argento, 2003 Celica GT Location: SoCal Posts: 118 Thanks: 85 Thanked 106 Times in 48 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Ouch. Goal: obtain TCM flash "idle hunt" is magical passphrase. Good to know! By chance, is this something fixable thru OFT? (edit: is this the "smoother idle" others have described being fixed by OFT flash of the Ecu? Or is the TCM flash entirely separate?) Last edited by WryGuy; 05-26-2016 at 11:52 PM.

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05-26-2016, 06:24 PM	#5
Spacemane969 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Drives: 2013 ARGENTO A/T Location: Hampton Roads, Virginia, US Posts: 345 Thanks: 149 Thanked 136 Times in 68 Posts Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I want to kind of hijack this thread and discuss a sort of opposite problem that I've been wanting to ask about for a long time. While in manual mode I always had jerkiness that lunges me forward, from 2nd to 1st gear due to the transmission rev-matching. At that speed and RPM I'm not sure why the engineers decided to still include rev matching...So to get a smooth transition from 2nd to full stop I have just let the ECU do the work without switching into 1st at all. Hopefully this isn't really damaging to the engine as I figured it would calculate and shift the same way in NORMAL mode anyways. And I'm talking anywhere from 12 mph down to 7 or 8 I get this jerkiness so there seems to be no sweet spot. Does anyone else do the same?

05-26-2016, 08:38 PM	#7
geezerbrzeezer Geezer Join Date: Feb 2016 Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Sport Tech Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 276 Thanks: 133 Thanked 190 Times in 111 Posts Mentioned: 4 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Yes, always shift from second to first with a tap, because if you let the car do it, you will hear . . . . . . nothing. When you perform the tap yourself at your selected, elevated rpm range, you will hear the most beautiful noise from even the simplest exhaust upgrade. It will put a smile on your face, brighten your mood, obviate the nuisance posed by those pesky red lights, and garner much attention from the fellow motorists and pedestrians to whom you've just announced your arrival.

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