Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Target70]

as my last set of batteries burned out in less than a year, (very little actual usage, maybe engaged the phantom 20 times besides the vacuum trigger) I wonder if I should go with some lead acid batteries for a trial run. It seems according to that article that they can handle higher voltages without issue, but not sure about the current limitations, and I have no idea what ranges the battery charger in the phantom is putting out.

[WNDSRFR]

I don't think regular lead acid batteries would work. This is from the article:

AGM batteries can absorb more current than a regular car battery, which is why they can recharge faster. It takes time to charge regular batteries. They need slow, low-amp charging to prevent overheating — and they need more volts to push through their internal resistance.

AGM batteries don’t have nearly as much internal resistance, which is how they absorb 30, 40, even 50 amps at a time instead of a regular battery getting stressed out at more than 10 amps.


I took my boost batteries out to test and when I connected my regular charger, the one I always use, I discovered it puts out 16.5 volts!
No wonder my batteries have been failing prematurely.

[Target70]

I admit that we don't know what voltage and current the phantom battery charger is using. I don't even know if it has a circuit to stop charging when the batteries are full. So if the voltage is so high it will overload the AGM, and the current is so high it will overload the lead acid, the only thing I can think is to add a voltage limiting circuit on the charging side of the controller. Honestly the best thing to do would be to measure the phantoms charger circuit output.

[Qwimby1]

That article raises some interesting questions for me. I've always hooked positive to the battery and negative to a ground of the car somewhere without removing the negative cable from the battery. I then plugged in the charger. The article is a little vague about that when it says start the charger. My charger has an AGM setting, but I don't know if it would default to that with everything hooked up and then plugged in. Not sure either if that short time it would take me to switch from whatever it shows to AGM would create a problem. My trickle charger doesn't indicate if it's AGM. I'm going to have to check on that. one thing though seems to be definitive. My batteries were fine until I turned the ESC system off for a few hundred miles. When I switched it back on, they didn't have enough juice.

[WNDSRFR]

Tested my batteries and it looks like only one is really bad. This is how I tested them. I charged them individually on a variable voltage and current power supply set to max current and 14.5 volts. Charged them overnight. This wasn't really necessary because they should have been fully charged when I removed them from the car. Then I let them sit for a day and measured the voltage. The small ones were about 12.8 volts. One of the big one's was about 12.8 and the other one was about 12.3.
Then, I connected them one by one to my lawn tractor and tried to start it. The small batteries did very well. It cranked at full speed for about ten seconds then I rechecked the voltage. After sitting for a couple minutes they recovered to 12.8 volts. One of the big batteries worked similarly. But one of the big ones wouldn't crank the tractor at all. Definitely bad.

So it looks like just one bad battery will kill the whole system. I already ordered
all new batteries for only $120 so looks like I have a new UPS. Luckily I already have a 12V to 120V inverter. Ready for the next power outage.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by Target70

I admit that we don't know what voltage and current the phantom battery charger is using. I don't even know if it has a circuit to stop charging when the batteries are full. So if the voltage is so high it will overload the AGM, and the current is so high it will overload the lead acid, the only thing I can think is to add a voltage limiting circuit on the charging side of the controller. Honestly the best thing to do would be to measure the phantoms charger circuit output.

This is what I think (guess). My meter reads about 28.5 volts when the system is not engaged. I think that the charger is supplying 28.5 volts constantly to the 2 batteries in series. So each battery is charged at 14.25 volts continuously. The current would be whatever the alternator puts out minus the load to the car battery. The batteries will only draw as much current as they can hold. When I have the batteries hooked up to my charger, I set the current to max and it slowly drops to zero when the battery absorbed all it can hold.

Whenever I get my new batteries and put it back together I'll test my theory.

[WNDSRFR]

Got my new batteries installed and it works like new. Just in time for the cooler weather coming.
I used a different technique to change the batteries this time. Usually, I disconnect the wire harness from the batteries leaving the wiring in place and then remove the batteries.
It's always scary as hell that I arc the wrench when dealing with the positive side. I've melted more than one wrench before I figured out to insulate the wrench as best I could.
This time I left the wiring attached to the batteries and removed it as one piece. This way I have alot more room to deal with the connections outside of the car.
Much safer and easier. The only PITA is getting the battery clamp back on.

[Qwimby1]

Car has been running beautifully since I installed new Big Crank deep-cycle batteries, but I'm getting strange voltmeter readings. I can only see the meter at night so that's when I do my testing. It usually starts at 28.3, but when I activate the compressor the readings are very different than they were with the previous batteries. They'll drop sometimes to about 21.1 or sometimes as low as 18.1 but then stay right at that point even while the compressor continues to spin. It's working fine, but I think that as long as that blower is turning it should be reducing battery voltage. For whatever reason though, I'm getting consistent boost and it doesn't stop running so I guess it's just different characteristics of different batteries.


I think I'll adjust my throttle switch to bring in boost at 50 and 70% throttle. I still have something going on with WOT. The butterfly opens completely and throttle body is clean, but my absolute throttle position according to my OBD, indicates 80.1 max, and it doesn't feel like I'm getting full throttle.

[Qwimby1]

I posted this earlier on the TorqAmp thread. It should have gone here.

I've had my ESC for over a year and I'm delighted with it. Mine is version 2.5 with the two-position throttle switch. If I could get my hands on the version that has a sequential throttle I would really like that. I think that was version 3. If anyone knows where one of these might be available, or how this can be done, Id appreciate knowing that.

[WNDSRFR]

I think you're talking about the Procede Controller. It was a separate item from the ESC from OFT. I believe it died off with the Phantom. You see one for sale every now and then. You might want to try a WTB in the classified but be very careful of the scams. I put out a WTB for a blower when mine was broken and got nothing but scams.
As far as your previous post about batteries goes, I have a new view of what is going on.
I've been into Ebikes for a while now and have made the observation that the displayed voltage doesn't really mean that much. If my meter reads 60 volts and I give it full throttle, it drops to say 58 volts but as soon as I let off throttle it immediately rebounds to 60 volts.
So, I'm thinking that when you engage the ESC the meter may drop from 28.xx
to 24 volts or whatever. Then as soon as you disengage, the voltage bounces back to 26 or so and slowly rebuilds to 28.xx. So the ESC didn't actually use 4 volts, it only used 2.
I always wondered how the battery recharged so quickly. But now I realize it was never discharged as much as indicated.

[Qwimby1]

I put two new ETX 16 L Big Crank deep cycles in about six months ago when the ESC stopped working. It worked fine after that until recently I noticed my starting battery seemed to be getting weak. Voltage for the three combined batteries read 12.1, So I put in a new PC 680 starter battery a couple days ago, but something doesn't seem to be right. The new 680 read 12.8 V out of the box so I put it in. The next morning the whole system again read 12.1 V. I charged it overnight and drove it for a day and this morning it read 12.34 V. I've got a charger on it again now to see what I come up with but it's worrisome.


I did one thing that was a little unusual but I don't think it could cause this problem. The eyelet on the cable going from positive to the controller broke off and I didn't have the right size one to replace it, so I wrapped the wire around the terminal and tightened it down until I could get a proper size eyelet. I'm sure that's a solid connection and I wouldn't think that would be a problem.


I've got a relatively cheap Harbor Freight multimeter. Don't know if that could be a factor.

[Qwimby1]

Still trying to figure out my battery problem. I appear to have a parasitic drain somewhere. I can charge the battery bank to 12.7 or 8 but the next morning it's 12.3. I recently put in a dash cam which has an overnight feature and a voltage drop turnoff at 12.1V. It was off this morning with batteries at 12.34. I'm trying to reach the company to find out the current drain from the cam. I used to leave my OBD reader plugged all the time but I removed it for now.

[WNDSRFR]

Had a problem today. Started the car and it stalled immediately. It started right up but I noticed my voltage meter read 26 volts. It's usually about 28.5. Hmmm, unusual. It charged right back up so didn't think too much of it. A few minutes later while slowing down going into a round-a-bout the car stalled, all the dash lights came on, I kept it rolling, it stumbled and was OK again. Noticed the meter read 26 again so I turned off the system and it hasn't stalled again. Looks like the ESC just engages at random. Not good. I haven't been using it very much at all lately because my clutch is getting weak and slips when I engage it in sixth gear. And it's too damn hot to even think about dropping the trans again. So, it's going to remain off until I replace the clutch. Then I'll figure out what's going on.
Can't really complain too much. I've been enjoying this thing for going on almost ten years now. Amazing really. Just got to replace the batteries and maybe the bearings from time to time.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Qwimby1

I put two new ETX 16 L Big Crank deep cycles in about six months ago when the ESC stopped working. It worked fine after that until recently I noticed my starting battery seemed to be getting weak. Voltage for the three combined batteries read 12.1, So I put in a new PC 680 starter battery a couple days ago, but something doesn't seem to be right. The new 680 read 12.8 V out of the box so I put it in. The next morning the whole system again read 12.1 V. I charged it overnight and drove it for a day and this morning it read 12.34 V. I've got a charger on it again now to see what I come up with but it's worrisome.


I did one thing that was a little unusual but I don't think it could cause this problem. The eyelet on the cable going from positive to the controller broke off and I didn't have the right size one to replace it, so I wrapped the wire around the terminal and tightened it down until I could get a proper size eyelet. I'm sure that's a solid connection and I wouldn't think that would be a problem.


I've got a relatively cheap Harbor Freight multimeter. Don't know if that could be a factor.

You got something draining the battery.. Look up ways to trace battery draw when off.