New BRZ vs Z

[Ernest72]

Is the car faster if I use the dyno with the higher number?

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Is the car faster if I use the dyno with the higher number?

It is in any bench race I've ever competed in.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

Is the car faster if I use the dyno with the higher number?

I use the dyno graph in the 2020 86 gauge cluster and i have to deal with the torque dip.

It doesnt let me accelerate onto the highway safely because its such a huge deficit.

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Let me be honest with you. Get the M2 if it's going to be your last sportscar. The M2 and its many variations right now I would consider to be more special than the BRZ/86. It's probably the only M car worth the money.

A BRZ will never be as special as an M2, just like how an M2 will never be as special as an NSX.

It’s interesting you say that, in my last HPDE event, my instructor had a brand new M2, and so I took the opportunity to sit shotgun with him during one session on track, back to back after my own. The M2 is clearly more upscale than the BRZ, but my Turbo’d (300whp) BRZ was not only faster than the M2, but it felt a lot more connected and direct. The M2 in comparison felt heavy and subdued. I was really excited to try it initially, thinking this could potentially be my next car, and I got out of it thinking, wow, my car has nothing to envy to an M2 at all in terms of on driving feel, and particularly not when looking at upkeep costs for brakes, tires, etc. Not everyone will be willing to FI their car and will prefer a stock car, so each their own,but I can say that since I made the move, anything below 100k$ Became pretty much no longer interesting (and anything above way too expensive:-)) basically I came to the realization that the car I was « searching for » was already in my driveway (and paid for...).

There’s lots of reason why someone could want to upgrade from a BRZ (road noise, confortable ride, bigger backseats, more power, fancier interior, more expensive Branding, ...) however for someone who would primarily do so for power reasons but otherwise like the platform, I’d suggest considering FI as an alternative to changing car.

Though I’d share my own experience...

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by falcon_wizard

It’s interesting you say that, in my last HPDE event, my instructor had a brand new M2, and so I took the opportunity to sit shotgun with him during one session on track, back to back after my own. The M2 is clearly more upscale than the BRZ, but my Turbo’d (300whp) BRZ was not only faster than the M2, but it felt a lot more connected and direct. The M2 in comparison felt heavy and subdued. I was really excited to try it initially, thinking this could potentially be my next car, and I got out of it thinking, wow, my car has nothing to envy to an M2 at all in terms of on driving feel, and particularly not when looking at upkeep costs for brakes, tires, etc. Not everyone will be willing to FI their car and will prefer a stock car, so each their own,but I can say that since I made the move, anything below 100k$ Became pretty much no longer interesting (and anything above way too expensive:-)) basically I came to the realization that the car I was « searching for » was already in my driveway (and paid for...).

There’s lots of reason why someone could want to upgrade from a BRZ (road noise, confortable ride, bigger backseats, more power, fancier interior, more expensive Branding, ...) however for someone who would primarily do so for power reasons but otherwise like the platform, I’d suggest considering FI as an alternative to changing car.

Though I’d share my own experience...

I'd say being a passenger and being a driver are vastly different when it comes to understanding the car from a feel perspective, as well as comparing a stock car to a modified car doesn't make much sense.

I'm glad you enjoy your car and how it is set up for your needs, but I don't think your comparison as a passenger in an M2 to being a driver in your modified BRZ has much value.

Easily if we are to look at anything under 100k, a modified S2000 would absolutely smash the twins in every single performance category, but then some genius is going to bring up rear seats in a performance discussion. We also have older Porsches available.

Stock, the twins are great cars, a car meant for driving and to force you to be better at it; greater than the sum of it's parts easily. Your car is not a stock car, and you've not driven the M2. It'd be like me saying my CTR is better than a 911 because I modified it for me and that I think the driving dynamics are better in my CTR while only ever having sat passenger in a 911.

That's just not right.

The amount of information given to the driven from the car as opposed to the passenger is immense.

[Lynxis]

If Nissan actually offers the new Z for 400hp at ~35k entry, it's not just compelling but industry changing. You can't even get a domestic with that power level for that sort of money. If it happens, it makes me wonder what they'll gave up to make it.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

If Nissan actually offers the new Z for 400hp at ~35k entry, it's not just compelling but industry changing. You can't even get a domestic with that power level for that sort of money. If it happens, it makes me wonder what they'll gave up to make it.

Hiroshi Tamura, the Chief Product Specialist for GT-R and NISMO, was ready to admit when talking about the Proto Z that not everything is new under the skin. "We don’t have many platforms [at Nissan]," he said. "The Z platform is already existing, but we have to modify the existing platform [because] power and torque is quite different."

Old chassis, parts bin engine, and a new body. They pulled a Chrysler, doesn't mean it won't be fun just not an industry changer. It will be heavier than the out going 370Z but that's the price of OEM FI on an old chassis.

[Arthur-A]

There's nothing in the article that says the new Z is going to be heavier.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

Hiroshi Tamura, the Chief Product Specialist for GT-R and NISMO, was ready to admit when talking about the Proto Z that not everything is new under the skin. "We don’t have many platforms [at Nissan]," he said. "The Z platform is already existing, but we have to modify the existing platform [because] power and torque is quite different."

Old chassis, parts bin engine, and a new body. They pulled a Chrysler, doesn't mean it won't be fun just not an industry changer. It will be heavier than the out going 370Z but that's the price of OEM FI on an old chassis.

Who says a parts-bin car can't be an industry changer? If the car is good AND price/performance is a true bargain relative to anything else on the market, the fact that it shares parts with other/prior models won't matter much. I just worry that either the pricing will be notably higher than current rumors predict or the car will be unobtainable if demand is too great.

[Arthur-A]

Hoping for an S16 in the future.

[falcon_wizard]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I'd say being a passenger and being a driver are vastly different when it comes to understanding the car from a feel perspective, as well as comparing a stock car to a modified car doesn't make much sense.

I'm glad you enjoy your car and how it is set up for your needs, but I don't think your comparison as a passenger in an M2 to being a driver in your modified BRZ has much value.

Easily if we are to look at anything under 100k, a modified S2000 would absolutely smash the twins in every single performance category, but then some genius is going to bring up rear seats in a performance discussion. We also have older Porsches available.

Stock, the twins are great cars, a car meant for driving and to force you to be better at it; greater than the sum of it's parts easily. Your car is not a stock car, and you've not driven the M2. It'd be like me saying my CTR is better than a 911 because I modified it for me and that I think the driving dynamics are better in my CTR while only ever having sat passenger in a 911.

That's just not right.

The amount of information given to the driven from the car as opposed to the passenger is immense.

Just to clarify so you don’t misunderstand my point, I’m not trying to say that Car X is better than car Y »… I don’t know if you had the experience of being at speed on hot laps in multiple cars driven near the limit on a high speed racetrack that you are familiar with but if so you will know that even if you don’t have the steering/pedal feel, you still get all the feeling that provided through the seat and tires, which is quite a bit. You’ll feel acceleration, cornering, rolling, grip, braking, and how the car reacts in each corners, understeer/oversteer, etc. My experience and feedback does not just stem from comparing with the M2, I’ve been fortunate to be in 911s including a GT3 on that same circuit driven at 9/10th, and can say that it was an experience on a completely other level, extremely connected feeling, acceleration and grip in corners like there’s no tomorrow, etc. So while it’s obviously not the same as being in the driver seat, my feedback is based of many comparable data points in the same environment (Including a Civic racecar!, which in the right hands puts to shame many much higher power cars…) So in that context while some cars left me in awe wrt their level of performance relative to mine, the M2 unexpectedly left me rather underwhelmed…

I guess all I’m trying to say is that should someone owning an 86 (or other!) and be looking for more power, there are other alternatives to changing the whole car that are worth considering for the money, for example the 86 platform is able to handle quite a bit more power while keeping its strong driving attributes, and bigger isn’t always better… When you own a capable platform, there may be lots of room for upgrading without requiring to ditch the baby with the bathwater essentially… it depends what one is looking for… for instance say at one point you feel you want something more than your CTR, you could probably spend 15-20k$ (Or less) On it and get it to a performance/fun level that could only be surpassed by spending about 5+ times more… at that point, its a question of how much you can/want to spend. Anyway, fwiw, that’s my personal experience, others may differ… I don’t want to turn this into an endless debate, just share my experience…

Cheers

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

If Nissan actually offers the new Z for 400hp at ~35k entry, it's not just compelling but industry changing. You can't even get a domestic with that power level for that sort of money. If it happens, it makes me wonder what they'll gave up to make it.

V8 Mustang starts at 36K

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by falcon_wizard

Just to clarify so you don’t misunderstand my point, I’m not trying to say that Car X is better than car Y »… I don’t know if you had the experience of being at speed on hot laps in multiple cars driven near the limit on a high speed racetrack that you are familiar with but if so you will know that even if you don’t have the steering/pedal feel, you still get all the feeling that provided through the seat and tires, which is quite a bit. You’ll feel acceleration, cornering, rolling, grip, braking, and how the car reacts in each corners, understeer/oversteer, etc. My experience and feedback does not just stem from comparing with the M2, I’ve been fortunate to be in 911s including a GT3 on that same circuit driven at 9/10th, and can say that it was an experience on a completely other level, extremely connected feeling, acceleration and grip in corners like there’s no tomorrow, etc. So while it’s obviously not the same as being in the driver seat, my feedback is based of many comparable data points in the same environment (Including a Civic racecar!, which in the right hands puts to shame many much higher power cars…) So in that context while some cars left me in awe wrt their level of performance relative to mine, the M2 unexpectedly left me rather underwhelmed…

I guess all I’m trying to say is that should someone owning an 86 (or other!) and be looking for more power, there are other alternatives to changing the whole car that are worth considering for the money, for example the 86 platform is able to handle quite a bit more power while keeping its strong driving attributes, and bigger isn’t always better… When you own a capable platform, there may be lots of room for upgrading without requiring to ditch the baby with the bathwater essentially… it depends what one is looking for… for instance say at one point you feel you want something more than your CTR, you could probably spend 15-20k$ (Or less) On it and get it to a performance/fun level that could only be surpassed by spending about 5+ times more… at that point, its a question of how much you can/want to spend. Anyway, fwiw, that’s my personal experience, others may differ… I don’t want to turn this into an endless debate, just share my experience…

Cheers

I don't completely disagree with you, but for the most part I don't agree with you. There is a reason reviews are done from the drivers seat and not the passenger seat, I couldn't see Randy Pobst getting into a car as a passenger to then compare it to another car he was recently driving in, especially something as refined as a BMW.

Unless you are a racecar driver, and even then, many of the things you listed you are simply NOT going to feel as a passenger until you can register they are happening with your eyes. All you feel are varying levels of g's and maybe here some tire screeching. Now it is different if you are familiar with the car and know what to expect from the drivers seat, but that's not the case here.

Yes this can be endless because truly it's just opinion to opinion, but I don't feel you get enough information from the car as a passenger to be able to compare it to another car from the drivers seat.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

If Nissan actually offers the new Z for 400hp at ~35k entry, it's not just compelling but industry changing. You can't even get a domestic with that power level for that sort of money. If it happens, it makes me wonder what they'll gave up to make it.

My guess is profit margin. Nissan is in a dire situation and needs headlines and sales. Notice they're currently running a TV ad for the brand with several clips of the 400z despite it not even being "released" yet and far from available? This is a unique situation and could result in a great deal the first year. Chevy didn't need the press anywhere near as much, yet still offered the first year C8 at a base price that allowed for very little profit (maybe loss?) to get headlines and draw people in. Perhaps like the 2020 C8, Nissan will sell very few base models with most buyers tacking on enough options to create some profit.