2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Lol, the engine you probably didn't know was made by Yamaha for Nissan and how the 2000GT was an aborted project with Nissan (due to Z-car) that Toyota picked up and finalized? Do you have any idea what the production numbers were of the 2000GT and how rare it was? Do you know how many speed records the 2000GT broke when it came out? Do have any idea wtf you are even trying to say comparing the the 2000GT with the Supra?? What a joke dude.

The funny thing about the 2JZ and the Supra was it wasn't legendary for how it came from the factory, but how it was tuned by the aftermarket and tuners. In stock form, few people liked it and even fewer people bought it. And it's greatest claim to popular fame was being in a bad movie. The 2000GT was an instant classic. All these granular details and contexts might be too much for you to absorb, but try to keep up. I'll save you some 'research'.

The fact you think it's not okay to compare the LFA to the Supra and is okay to compare the 2000GT to the Supra displays exactly how silly and random your analyses are. You have zero coherence or consistency which is why you should actually move on like you recommended a few posts before you decided you couldn't actually take your own advice. LOL!! Keep it up!

What do you want to talk about next? Look forward to your next random post while you pretend to not read any actual responses to your bad arguments so you can save face; or just being educated by you on these car thingies from your next google search ('research').

Still waiting for you to figure out how to move on....

At this point I stopped taking you seriously after your botched attempt at schooling me on Toyota history. A factory 2JZ in a Cressida? bruh.

Not comparing anything, BTW. Just bringing up the fact that by your own logic, the 2000GT doesn't deserve its place as Toyota's flagship. For as much as the car is famous for its accomplishments (and gasp, a James Bond movie), that doesn't change the fact that the motor shares its parts with Toyota passenger cars, just like the Supra shares its motor with several other Toyota/Lexus models.

If it makes you feel better, I'll stop replying to you, because you've proven to me that you're incapable of having a civil discussion, you're making assumptions and putting words in my mouth, and you're factually wrong on basic Toyota history. I don't intend on derailing the thread with such a fruitless argument that will amount to nothing but your essay-long rants, and I wouldn't wish this on anybody else wanting to read through the thread.

You're free to keep replying to me though; I wasn't really trying to troll you initially, but after your essay, I kind of was. And clearly, it worked. See you later, abraxis!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by abraxis

not into big fat heavy cars. too each their own. the physical dimensions are just too large to enjoy in the canyons or in congested traffic. not my style of driving. would make more sense to save up 15k more and get the C8. assuming I could live with the Chinese made parts and QC issues like stitching and paint. But I guess if one can't left foot brake and prefers the fun of slower lap times of manuals versus consistent trail braking and throttle management, the Camaro could be an option.

Uhmm in what world do you believe that one can't left foot brake in a Camaro? Cause I do it several times every track day. And throttle management depends on mode but it's very consistent. :shrug:

And.. I'd sadly rather have Chinese parts than German parts. Been there, done that, have the credit card receipts for more than the car cost.

For daily driving the Supra is better imho.

I haven't driven a Zupra yet.. and no desire because of the automatic. But I'd find that hard to believe based on experience with the Camaro IMHO.

Better 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, braking 70-0, lateral Gs, more MPG, tighter turning circle, 16 inches shorter, easier to park, easier to cut thru traffic, larger trunk and 10dB quieter at idle and 70mph cruise than the Camaro. Toyota support versus GM. Sounds like a better daily driver for my needs. And if I want a track car I'm getting the C8. Assuming it's a high speed track like COTA or Buttonwillow. Supra would be more fun on Streets of Willow. I'd venture to guess the Supra is actually stiffer than the C8 chassis. Would be curious to see the comparison. Could be wrong.

GM support has been great. For the rare engine issue on Camaro's, even ZL1s, at the track GM doesn't even question replacing the engine. Meanwhile, toyota techs f%ck up FR-S engines during recall and give the owner a bill for a new engine. Not sure I'd prefer that wonderful Toyota support but to each their own.

I focus more on fun to drive and the Camaro is more fun to drive IMO than the 86 is. Again, haven't driven a Zupra.. and likely won't unless one actually shows up to the track and I get curious and the owner is willing. Otherwise the Zupra could cease to exist tomorrow and I wouldn't even remember it ever existed except for threads about it.

Originally Posted by abraxis

research that sometime instead of trolling yourself in this thread some more. move on dude.

It's just hilarious to me that you even use the word research when you claimed you could get a Cressida with a 2JZ from the factory.

[WolfpackS2k]

@abraxis is in for a big surprise if he tried to beat an SS off the line with a Supra on public streets.

Camaro SS is almost a second faster in the real world 5-60 mph acceleration measurement. Over 20% faster.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

If you guys are comparing a Camaro to a Supra, it's a bit moot. They look VASTLY different. I personally think the Camaro looks like a turd and the Supra looks wonderful. There will be an equal number of people thinking the exact opposite. I would probably prefer the Supra interior cause I really dislike the old school gauge cluster on the Camaro. Everything is just big and bulky and American. The only selling point over the Supra is the option of a manual gearbox. Both have crap visibility. I highly doubt there are too many people cross-shopping the two. The demographic groups the two cars cater to are completely different, have different likes and brand loyalties, american muscle vs JDM. The Camaro never even crosses my mind, and I don't care how good it apparently is, I would just never buy it. I don't like the looks, I don't like the interior, I don't like the idea of driving a Chevrolet. With the Supra, I don't like that it's auto. If I won it in a raffle, I'd keep it. I like it but I wouldn't pay money to own one.

[Dave-ROR]

I was a Toyota fanboy once too.. ended in the 90s lol

[BA9092]

Eh, I'm not a devoted "fanboy" to any brand.

I've owned cars from Honda/Acura, Mitsubishi, Ford, VW, Nissan and Mazda. None were terrible, none were great. They each had their strengths and weaknesses.

I've had a old Jetta VR6 that had no engine issues whatsoever for over 90k miles but had a new Honda J30 V6 that had, according to the dealer, "bent valves from kissing the top of a cylinder" (poor factory adjustment?) which was replaced under warranty at just 5k miles!

You can get a lemon from Lexus and a Chevy that'll last a lifetime without any issues. There is no so-called "curse" Lol.

Personally, I love the Supra. Yes, I'm a diehard manual fan, but I'd give it up for that sweet ZF. It's proportions and looks are perfect, to me, since it's all subjective anyway. I'd just get an extended warranty if I were to keep it a long time - because BMW. Lol.

However, when it comes to "large" sports cars, I prefer the interior of the Mustang to the Camaro, but prefer the Camaro's exterior design to the Mustang.

No, I'm not a GM hater. I actually prefer the C7 to the C8. Lol. Heck, I'd even buy a mid-engined Fiero if they'd bring it back! I just don't like "sports cars" that are over 180" in length - just a preference.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Uhmm in what world do you believe that one can't left foot brake in a Camaro? Cause I do it several times every track day. And throttle management depends on mode but it's very consistent. :shrug:

It's just hilarious to me that you even use the word research when you claimed you could get a Cressida with a 2JZ from the factory.

I didn't mean to say it was impossible. I used the word 'can't' to give you the piss (like you did about people who don't prefer manuals over DCTs and autos) You actually said people would buy a Supra over a Camaro because they can't drive a manual. I just think you can't (there's that word again) really modulate as sensitively or frequently as well when you have to integrate operating a clutch pedal too. Not as ideal or intuitive imho.

As for the 2JZ Cressida, that was my mistake. I had a friend when I was younger that had a 2JZ Cressida that wanted to upgrade to a GTE so I assumed incorrectly way back that he had a stock configuration. The 1JZ was the latest the Cressida got in most recent guise. I'm happy to admit I made a mistake on a specific detail unlike someone else that likes to parade around like a Boss regardless of not owning up to any errors in logic, grammar, economics, history or reading comprehension. Regardless, that's something they should work on in their own time and space.

My main gripe with the modern pony cars is they aren't pony cars anymore, more like Clydesdales. Effing huge! I've fantasized of the modern Camaro or Mustang in 3/4's scale and weight. I'd easily reconsider dropping cash on those if they were just smaller and lighter despite all the other things I don't like about them.

And yeah the 86 engine recall was a total fuck up. Thankfully I was not part of that VIN range; and I never let dealers or anyone else work on any of my cars anyway. I got ASE's way back just so I could be independent and free of bad techs and stealership antics and my best friend is a Lexus master tech. We used to laff at all the Mercedes AMGs next door that would have to pull and replace engines consistently. They kept a decent inventory of crate engines. Normally not an ideal scenario, but definitely preferable to a Subie tech messing up your car due to sheer negligence and giving it back to you. That is freaking awful. Akio definitely needs to have some fresh words with some employees who don't live at the track.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by abraxis

I didn't mean to say it was impossible. I used the word 'can't' to give you the piss (like you did about people who don't prefer manuals over DCTs and autos) You actually said people would buy a Supra over a Camaro because they can't drive a manual. I just think you can't (there's that word again) really modulate as sensitively or frequently as well when you have to integrate operating a clutch pedal too. Not as ideal or intuitive imho.

I said "can't" because that's the only reason a Zupra would be a better car IMO To me, the Zupra is pointless at it's price range. Probably why I don't see many on the street (I've only seen one on the street, and it was being test driven based on the window sticker still being stuck to the window). Other areas will vary of course. Left foot braking hasn't been an issue on any MT car I've owned except for the Focus RS I had.. that didn't work too well there but it had nothing to do with the transmission.

My main gripe with the modern pony cars is they aren't pony cars anymore, more like Clydesdales. Effing huge! I've fantasized of the modern Camaro or Mustang in 3/4's scale and weight. I'd easily reconsider dropping cash on those if they were just smaller and lighter despite all the other things I don't like about them.

They are bigish.. but that's what most buyers want. Hell most Americans probably consider them to be "small" cars ha. The weight is fairly invisible though on the alpha platform cars. The Mustang on the other hand.. not so much.. and on the 5th gen Camaro.. yeah not so much there either. Charger/Challenger aren't even pony cars so I'll ignore those massive machines.

And yeah the 86 engine recall was a total fuck up. Thankfully I was not part of that VIN range; and I never let dealers or anyone else work on any of my cars anyway. I got ASE's way back just so I could be independent and free of bad techs and stealership antics and my best friend is a Lexus master tech. We used to laff at all the Mercedes AMGs next door that would have to pull and replace engines consistently. They kept a decent inventory of crate engines. Normally not an ideal scenario, but definitely preferable to a Subie tech messing up your car due to sheer negligence and giving it back to you. That is freaking awful. Akio definitely needs to have some fresh words with some employees who don't live at the track.

On the plus side, my next FR-S track car arrived nice and cheap thanks to a Toyota dealer destroying the engine. Only 27,000 miles on that car.. so there's that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

They are bigish.. but that's what most buyers want. Hell most Americans probably consider them to be "small" cars ha. The weight is fairly invisible though on the alpha platform cars. The Mustang on the other hand.. not so much.. and on the 5th gen Camaro.. yeah not so much there either. Charger/Challenger aren't even pony cars so I'll ignore those massive machines.

What cars aren't "biggish" now? If this was even 30 years ago the 86 would be probably considerably smaller and lighter.
Mustangs and Camaros were never small and light unless you consider the Fox Body Mustang and I prefer to pretend that creation never existed.

The Challenger has never ever been a Pony car and calling that 4 door travesty a "Charger" is a crime against humanity that can never be forgiven.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What cars aren't "biggish" now? If this was even 30 years ago the 86 would be probably considerably smaller and lighter.

Nope. The 1990 FT86 was the S13 240SX. Same size, same weight. The End.

[iLuveKetchup]

The only car that has gotten smaller (compared to its replaced gen) is the ND.

I really wish cars came in different sizes like clothes. Cars nowadays are Large/XL. They should offer a scaled down 9/16th scale in Meadium.

When will the Supra get a proper dual clutch transmission?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

The only car that has gotten smaller (compared to its replaced gen) is the ND.

The 6th gen Camaro is smaller and lighter than the 5th gen.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

The 6th gen Camaro is smaller and lighter than the 5th gen.

Well.. I mean it's still a husky car.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

Well.. I mean it's still a husky car.

Which wasnt your point