2020 Toyota GR Supra Revealed!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Seems like the MT was definitely part of the development, but I believe it was said that it wasn't good enough for the Supra. Maybe the car was losing too much traction and the automatic was just so much better that the manual didn't do the car justice.

I question the notion that the car wouldn't come with a 2.0T, and then when that was determined, they decided to release two versions of the 2.0T (SZ and SZ-R). It seemed like there are always multiple engines available in Japan and in Europe for insurance, registration and fuel costs. Why those versions didn't have the manual transmission is beyond me, especially when the manual transmission is so popular in markets like Japan and Europe and even more for sports cars. It also eliminates the Supra from drifting unless someone swaps in a manual. Just annoying.

FYI that pic is a 2.0 ver (iirc), & you can clearly see that it's Z4 model from the looking at the interior. I know there's a 3.0 MT ver as well... but don't quote me on this. When they start testing 2.0 ver, they tested out BMW Z4 prototype MT on both 2.0 & 3.0. Both failed (why? idk). So they axed the idea of MT.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

but I believe it was said that it wasn't good enough for the Supra.

Maybe they meant this in a qualitative sense, not a quantitative one. BMW manuals suck. You know how the BRZ shifter is tight and precise, with nice feedback and short throws? How the clutch has a short throw and it's pretty predictable and linear?

BMW manuals are nothing like that. The shifter is rubbery as hell, imprecise, long throws and no feedback. The clutch is vague and totally unpredictable. This is partly by design (Clutch Delay Valve) and partly because they use a flimsy plastic pedal with a varying mechanical advantage over the master cylinder. On top of that the clutch travel is so large you have to lift your knee up to release it fully. BMW manuals are manual, but that is really the extent of it. They’re not really rewarding to operate.

This is coming from me as a long time BMW driver, I've gone through 4 manual BMWs and drive several friends' ones regularly.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

FYI that pic is a 2.0 ver (iirc), & you can clearly see that it's Z4 model from the looking at the interior. I know there's a 3.0 MT ver as well... but don't quote me on this. When they start testing 2.0 ver, they tested out BMW Z4 prototype MT on both 2.0 & 3.0. Both failed (why? idk). So they axed the idea of MT.

I forgot the Z4 came with a manual in the EU, and yes, that is clearly a Z4.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Idiotic or not depends a lot on what is valued by the user.
I'm a lot more interested in the 2.0 at either $40k base or $45k with performance oriented options than I am in the 200 lb. nose-heavier 3.0 at $50k. I don't need the additional horsepower and i value the lighter weight and thousands of $$$$ saved with the 2.0.

Supra 2.0 will be heavier comparing to your old Cayman. No?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Supra 2.0 will be heavier comparing to your old Cayman. No?

By about 130-150 lb.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by gymratter

https://carbuzz.com/news/toyota-is-d...20-supra-stock

I enjoy how that article make it sounds like it was Toyota's fault for not selling. It's more like Toyota DEALERSHIP that's fucking up by markup the value of Supra. Just like when Ford released Focus RS, Honda released CTR. Greedy POS stealership love to markup. When the sales isn't going well, blaming the brand itself and idiot higher up brand chairman killing off, cuz they only see the number on the paper.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I enjoy how that article make it sounds like it was Toyota's fault for not selling. It's more like Toyota DEALERSHIP that's fucking up by markup the value of Supra. Just like when Ford released Focus RS, Honda released CTR. Greedy POS stealership love to markup. When the sales isn't going well, blaming the brand itself and idiot higher up brand chairman killing off, cuz they only see the number on the paper.

I recall reading some early posts about huge markups for even the lowly twins!

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I recall reading some early posts about huge markups for even the lowly twins!

Yeah, that was crazy. In the beginning, some stealership was selling FR-S for double of the price.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Yeah, that was crazy. In the beginning, some stealership was selling FR-S for double of the price.

And people will pay it! So it isn't even the dealer's fault. It goes all the way back to the moronic customers that are willing to pay those mark ups so they can say they were first. Ironically enough I bet they are also the same people that sell a year later to get the next new thing out at a mark up!
The dealerships wouldn't even bother marking up without that crowd.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

And people will pay it! So it isn't even the dealer's fault. It goes all the way back to the moronic customers that are willing to pay those mark ups so they can say they were first. Ironically enough I bet they are also the same people that sell a year later to get the next new thing out at a mark up!
The dealerships wouldn't even bother marking up without that crowd.

But that doesn't mean it's okay to markup. As a result, these kind of idiotic article comes out.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

But that doesn't mean it's okay to markup. As a result, these kind of idiotic article comes out.

Supply and demand sets prices. If people will pay the mark up then they will mark up whether we think it is Okay or not. My point is that it goes beyond even the dealerships.

[BA9092]

When my close friend was shopping for his GT350 back in 2016, he went through many stealerships who were playing the mark-up game. He finally found one for MSRP, since it was the first year of the VooDoo engine.

I can see why they would set a mark-up on the latest-and-greatest, especially if they're lured in by today's social media with the uncommonly wealthy "influencers" and the "I-got-rich-off-my-YouTube-channel" crowd flaunting their effortless car purchases, like they bought a new pair of jeans for the month. Lol.

We just have to do our own research and be diligent.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BA9092

When my close friend was shopping for his GT350 back in 2016, he went through many stealerships who were playing the mark-up game. He finally found one for MSRP, since it was the first year of the VooDoo engine.

I can see why they would set a mark-up on the latest-and-greatest, especially if they're lured in by today's social media with the uncommonly wealthy "influencers" and the "I-got-rich-off-my-YouTube-channel" crowd flaunting their effortless car purchases, like they bought a new pair of jeans for the month. Lol.

We just have to do our own research and be diligent.

This^ Just be patient, search around and leave the markups to those that want to brag about it!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

And people will pay it! So it isn't even the dealer's fault. It goes all the way back to the moronic customers that are willing to pay those mark ups so they can say they were first. Ironically enough I bet they are also the same people that sell a year later to get the next new thing out at a mark up!
The dealerships wouldn't even bother marking up without that crowd.

I know there has always been those people with too much money, who have big egos and lots of insecurity, who must buy first, but these days, I bet all the Youtube'ers want to make big money by getting these cars on their channel first, so they pay the markups. I bet parts manufactures also pay the markups, so they can get a development car for parts, or get a car for marketing.

I have read articles that talk about how the dealerships don't make much money on car sales or even warranty service, but I don't feel sympathetic when I hear about these huge markups that destroy sports cars when sports cars are already dying in America. It is sad. It makes me think that Tesla's direct to customer sales model is better, and they should only license dealerships for certain things like servicing cars to manufacture standards, or they should not allow dealerships to mark up cars beyond a certain point, and if they do mark them up over a certain percentage of MSRP, 50% or whatever percentage goes to Toyota and not directly to the dealer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenr.../#6d219d9a1e6f