CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by churchx

@solidONE: i use bushing from powerflex, but the other one, rear one of front LCA, for extra camber, not caster. It allowed me together with two camberbolt sets to get -3 front with stock topmounts. IIRC for rear bushing other poly bushing wendors all have non-eccentric bushings for that joint, (if) eccentric ones (eg. whiteline alc, powerflex's one and so on) - only front one, for caster.

Isnt the powerflex a spherical? They're like $200 for the set or more IIRC.

The smaller LCA eccentric bushing is designed to gain camber, but it should also give you some caster if you go the other direction. Will have to make up the camber elsewhere. If I"m only shooting for -2 degrees static front camber it shouldnt be hard to do. Main thing I want to see if how much caster I can get without resorting to adjustable top mounts designed for this. If I can get a good amount of caster and get -2* camber still using the top mount I have then one less part for me to purchase.

[churchx]

@solidONE: -2 can be got with two sets of just camberbolts (upto -2.2 to -2.3 IIRC at stock height). I had -3 with two camberbolt sets + powerflex rearward bushing (and stock topmount). Currently running at -3 with pedders eccentric rubber topmount + powerflex bushing + single set of (lower) camberbolts (stock top 16mm bolt).
And no, powerflex bushings were not spherical. Poly, with eccentric drilled metal insert.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by churchx

@solidONE: -2 can be got with two sets of just camberbolts (upto -2.2 to -2.3 IIRC at stock height). I had -3 with two camberbolt sets + powerflex rearward bushing (and stock topmount). Currently running at -3 with pedders eccentric rubber topmount + powerflex bushing + single set of (lower) camberbolts (stock top 16mm bolt).
And no, powerflex bushings were not spherical. Poly, with eccentric drilled metal insert.

I've gotten -3 left -3.2 passenger wih just 2 sets of SPC camber bolts on stock springs and dampers.

[churchx]

@solidONE: "two sets of SPC" - i'm guessing both were 14mm ones? As camberbolts already have thinner inner part, and as i heard that it's not advisable to use lobed bolts in slotted holes (which i guess top 16mm strut hole with 14mm camberbolt will be), and i already had once head of one camberbolt sheared, for piece of heart i'd prefer at very least right sized camberbolts at strut holes they are meant to. -2.2 to -2.3 at stock height were mentioned with 14mm SPC in lower, 16mm Whiteline in upper. And for said piece of heart, once pedder topmounts appeared, i switched from two camberbolts+powerflex, to just SPC 14mm in lower+stock full strength 16mm bolt in upper+powerflex bushing+pedders topmount. Adjustment now is simply turning around single camberbolt for -3 for summer and -1.5 for winter (toe dialing aside).

[Racecomp Engineering]

Everything will wear out eventually for the 2 lower control arm bushings. OEM and rubber will tear. Poly makes me nervous in those locations, especially the big bushing, but it does seem to do OKAY. Spherical bearings are ideal in some ways, but do add some harshness and they should be protected for a street car (at least where I live). I've considered making my own sphericals for OEM arms or pressing them into some Cusco arms but that's pretty far down the list. The advantage with some of the aftermarket arms with adjustability is it's super easy to replace the rod ends if/when they wear out.

The powerflex big bushing with the poly ball bushing looks interesting but I want to hold one in my hand and see it.

- Andrew

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by churchx

@solidONE: "two sets of SPC" - i'm guessing both were 14mm ones? As camberbolts already have thinner inner part, and as i heard that it's not advisable to use lobed bolts in slotted holes (which i guess top 16mm strut hole with 14mm camberbolt will be), and i already had once head of one camberbolt sheared, for piece of heart i'd prefer at very least right sized camberbolts at strut holes they are meant to. -2.2 to -2.3 at stock height were mentioned with 14mm SPC in lower, 16mm Whiteline in upper. And for said piece of heart, once pedder topmounts appeared, i switched from two camberbolts+powerflex, to just SPC 14mm in lower+stock full strength 16mm bolt in upper+powerflex bushing+pedders topmount. Adjustment now is simply turning around single camberbolt for -3 for summer and -1.5 for winter (toe dialing aside).

Nope. 14 on the bottom 16 on the top. To get that much adjustment you need to kinda force it, take up every last bit of slop.

What I do before tightening the bolts after adjusting to maximum is position the floor jack below the bottom of your rotor and gently jack it up until you have maximum negative adjustment. Then you can impact it on, then finish torquing by hand. Torque specs are like 100ft lbs or something like that for the 16mm so the impact shouldnt even tickle its belly.

So Pedder is he new challenger in town since I been 'gone' the past 3 years.. Cant say I've ever heard of them before... last year maybe 2 years ago the furthest? You'd recommend their stuff? looks sturdy?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Everything will wear out eventually for the 2 lower control arm bushings. OEM and rubber will tear. Poly makes me nervous in those locations, especially the big bushing, but it does seem to do OKAY. Spherical bearings are ideal in some ways, but do add some harshness and they should be protected for a street car (at least where I live). I've considered making my own sphericals for OEM arms or pressing them into some Cusco arms but that's pretty far down the list. The advantage with some of the aftermarket arms with adjustability is it's super easy to replace the rod ends if/when they wear out.

The powerflex big bushing with the poly ball bushing looks interesting but I want to hold one in my hand and see it.

- Andrew

I wonder how the car drives with extra wide front track and all the caster. should be very nice with those Costco arms.

[churchx]

solidONE: pedders topmounts are what whiteline com-c were. Rubber eccentric (fixed offset) top mounts. But while whiteline for most had very soon bearing binding issues, couldn't solve it in several revisions and finally delisted twins from compatibility list. Pedders supposedly have improved a bit (eg. putting bearing at angle, to reduce side loads and such). So far they run for me ok for about year of DD (and 3 trackdays). Why i rave about them (or powerflex front lca rear bushing), as these seem to be only way to get camber to -3 with just camberbolts and without slotting struts. I had at one point pillowball camberplates, but they impacted NVH way too much, had to revert to stock topmounts (and not having enough camber), hence was glad when at first powerflex bushings came out, and then when when those pedders topmounts. Though dual cambolt set+any of them should be sufficient for -3.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Everything will wear out eventually for the 2 lower control arm bushings. OEM and rubber will tear. Poly makes me nervous in those locations, especially the big bushing, but it does seem to do OKAY. Spherical bearings are ideal in some ways, but do add some harshness and they should be protected for a street car (at least where I live). I've considered making my own sphericals for OEM arms or pressing them into some Cusco arms but that's pretty far down the list. The advantage with some of the aftermarket arms with adjustability is it's super easy to replace the rod ends if/when they wear out.

The powerflex big bushing with the poly ball bushing looks interesting but I want to hold one in my hand and see it.

- Andrew

Hi Andrew, can you elaborate on that?

[solidONE]

I just came to the realization that the powerflex is both spherical AND urathane..

blew my mind a tiny bit

[churchx]

That's front bushing? Kind of makes sense, as LCA moves up/down, joint angle changes by rotation, while whiteline alc i guess relies on compression of bushing material.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I just came to the realization that the powerflex is both spherical AND urathane..

That's why I want to see one up close!

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Hi Andrew, can you elaborate on that?

Any time there's more than just 1 axis of movement/rotation, a solid poly bushing makes me nervous due to binding or increased wear/fatigue elsewhere. The whiteline alk is designed to pivot or flex some which is nice, but it's still going to be different than a spherical bearing.

- Andrew

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

That's why I want to see one up close!

- Andrew

having played with a lot of RC cars as a kid and working on cars, I've seen plastic spheical bearings, but I've never seen a hybrid, spherical AND offset/eccentric. Pretty snazzy. I don think hey even make metallic sphericals like this where the hole is not dead center. Looking a the specs and actual photos I couldn't tell if they've made a mistake labeling as both urethane and being adjustable.