P0171 and P117B after Edelbrock SC FIXED

[snowtaipan]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Ok i'm 99% sure it is just the airflow calculation (either entirely maf, or hybrid SD, could be, whatever) at idle that it's wrong
The codes you get are caused by this high ltft, that 's not caused by a leak but it is necessary actually to run the right afr.. but it causes a rough drive at low rpm I 'm sure you feel it

While there is 37% ltft at idle, the stft is already working against it while car is warm, and with still a total correction of around 20-25%, the fuel quantity total at idle is extremely low
the maf scaling/speed density is off at low values, and 100rpm more on the idle will also help
it's also a bit off in open loop, but at the other extreme since it is a bit too rich

Tune is not pretty, rich with very relaxed ignition timings

also i think it can be racerom version 10 that was pretty bugged for US 2017 cars

So from what I'm tracking, the fuel pressure sensor is involved with calibrating the fuel mixture. If it's bad, maybe that's the issue. However, when I backpinned it with the IGN ON, it wasn't receiving voltage. I'm not sure if it should always have v supplied or only when commanded by the ECU. However, because I can't get it to send voltage without doing anything shady (I'm about to solder a battery to jumper wires to feed the sensor <6v so I can test the sensor) I don't know if the sensor is bad.

Since I suspect the sensor only gets activated when the high pressure system is being activated, I'm wondering if the tune isn't commanding the sensor, therefore I receive no reading, and that then throws off trim?

I've seen several things now about the K00C tune being buggy. Would switching to K00G work? I'm hinky about just swapping out tunes... guess I'm just a chicken shit on tuning.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

CARB only approves (or disapproves) of the tune. Edelbrock's tunes are developed in-house on their engine and chassis dynos.

Yes, which was why I said it is not “their” tune in quotations. I was subtly hinting (maybe too subtly) that CARB’s involvement probably jeopardizes the integrity of the tune. Compared to OEMs, I’m sure Edelbrock spends a fraction of the time on the tune, so given that limitation, it probably would have been easier to tune without the safety net in the tune for emissions.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by snowtaipan

So from what I'm tracking, the fuel pressure sensor is involved with calibrating the fuel mixture. If it's bad, maybe that's the issue. However, when I backpinned it with the IGN ON, it wasn't receiving voltage. I'm not sure if it should always have v supplied or only when commanded by the ECU. However, because I can't get it to send voltage without doing anything shady (I'm about to solder a battery to jumper wires to feed the sensor <6v so I can test the sensor) I don't know if the sensor is bad.

Since I suspect the sensor only gets activated when the high pressure system is being activated, I'm wondering if the tune isn't commanding the sensor, therefore I receive no reading, and that then throws off trim?

I've seen several things now about the K00C tune being buggy. Would switching to K00G work? I'm hinky about just swapping out tunes... guess I'm just a chicken shit on tuning.

bits of random things here, mate
anyway, your car seems fine, nothing broken, just need a newer racerom patch and a better tune in my opinion

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Yes, which was why I said it is not “their” tune in quotations. I was subtly hinting (maybe too subtly) that CARB’s involvement probably jeopardizes the integrity of the tune. Compared to OEMs, I’m sure Edelbrock spends a fraction of the time on the tune, so given that limitation, it probably would have been easier to tune without the safety net in the tune for emissions.

Lots of speculation here on your end, so let me clarify.

Edelbrock is actually an OEM supplier, that develops OEM applications for some um... very fast factory supercharged cars.

CARB has zero input on the tune. They only pass/fail the tune; they do not alter it in any way, nor do they provide input, only emissions guidelines that the tune must meet. They have no involvement beyond that.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Lots of speculation here on your end, so let me clarify.

Edelbrock is actually an OEM supplier, that develops OEM applications for some um... very fast factory supercharged cars.

CARB has zero input on the tune. They only pass/fail the tune; they do not alter it in any way, nor do they provide input, only emissions guidelines that the tune must meet. They have no involvement beyond that.

They provide OEM tunes or just parts?

Again, “” was used to insinuate that CARB is setting the standards (like saying haha that’s CARB’s tune, you know, because they have a gun to my head), which is influencing the tune. Given federal smog standards, the tune could be different. Given the process to get something CARB certified, I’m sure a developer wouldn’t go into a testing session with a tune that could be close to failing. I would imagine they would be more conservative than aggressive.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by snowtaipan

So from what I'm tracking, the fuel pressure sensor is involved with calibrating the fuel mixture. If it's bad, maybe that's the issue. However, when I backpinned it with the IGN ON, it wasn't receiving voltage. I'm not sure if it should always have v supplied or only when commanded by the ECU. However, because I can't get it to send voltage without doing anything shady (I'm about to solder a battery to jumper wires to feed the sensor <6v so I can test the sensor) I don't know if the sensor is bad.

Since I suspect the sensor only gets activated when the high pressure system is being activated, I'm wondering if the tune isn't commanding the sensor, therefore I receive no reading, and that then throws off trim?

I've seen several things now about the K00C tune being buggy. Would switching to K00G work? I'm hinky about just swapping out tunes... guess I'm just a chicken shit on tuning.

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

bits of random things here, mate
anyway, your car seems fine, nothing broken, just need a newer racerom patch and a better tune in my opinion

As tomm said most 2017+ cars you want to be on old racrom 9.1 or latest racerom 12


any verisons of racrom 10 or 11 you want to avoid on 2017+ cars as there were quite a few bugs, caised some very strange effects.



Blutooth interface will read racerom version

[snowtaipan]

My current tune has the most updated ECUTEK software, all the hardware is updated, the ROM is the most current 27356. So unless Edelbrock has for three years missed some pretty major tuning errors or I got the first ever trash out of the box SC, it's gotta be me.

As CSG mike has pointed out there is a major seal I haven't physically inspected. The manifold. I assume that water and starting fluid would get picked up through vacuum, but either way I'm gonna have to tear it down. I had two of the guys I supervise help with the install, and I trust them with my life, but no one's perfect. So it's getting torn down if I don't have a fast fix by the weekend.

Edelbrock calibrations got in touch, they have all the data logs, forum thread etc. If they don't have anything shocking as a solution, I'll pull it off and start over.

I will point out that they sent the wrong washer for the additional pulley, so their QA/QC ain't perfect, but that wasn't hard to fix.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by snowtaipan

So from what I'm tracking, the fuel pressure sensor is involved with calibrating the fuel mixture. If it's bad, maybe that's the issue. However, when I backpinned it with the IGN ON, it wasn't receiving voltage. I'm not sure if it should always have v supplied or only when commanded by the ECU. However, because I can't get it to send voltage without doing anything shady (I'm about to solder a battery to jumper wires to feed the sensor <6v so I can test the sensor) I don't know if the sensor is bad.

Since I suspect the sensor only gets activated when the high pressure system is being activated, I'm wondering if the tune isn't commanding the sensor, therefore I receive no reading, and that then throws off trim?

I've seen several things now about the K00C tune being buggy. Would switching to K00G work? I'm hinky about just swapping out tunes... guess I'm just a chicken shit on tuning.

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

bits of random things here, mate
anyway, your car seems fine, nothing broken, just need a newer racerom patch and a better tune in my opinion

As tomm said most 2017+ cars you want to be on old racrom 9.1 or latest racerom 12


any verisons of racrom 10 or 11 you want to avoid on 2017+ cars as there were quite a few bugs, caised some very strange effects.



Blutooth interface will read racerom version


But if tune has run ok for a while and just started having problem now its very l ikely hardware problem like leak fuel pressure or sensor

[tomm.brz]

27356 is a beta-ish non-public version of racerom, a branch of racerom 9. frankly, old shit with now racerom 11.1 and 12 out

it is a bit unrelated to the version of the software ProEcu

Even if i still think it s tune related your problem, check maf ring if it s ok, and not leaking from there too while you are at it

[snowtaipan]

update from Edelbrock Cal:
Considering the DTC’s, high positive fuel trims at idle and extensive manifold leak checks already done, please get a fuel pressure reading from the low pressure pump at idle. Low fuel pressure from the in-tank pump would cause both the PI and DI injectors to perform abnormally per P1170 and P117B

Guess I'll be stealing the good tester from work, mine only does like 10 PSI lol

[steve99]

Originally Posted by snowtaipan

update from Edelbrock Cal:
Considering the DTC’s, high positive fuel trims at idle and extensive manifold leak checks already done, please get a fuel pressure reading from the low pressure pump at idle. Low fuel pressure from the in-tank pump would cause both the PI and DI injectors to perform abnormally per P1170 and P117B

Guess I'll be stealing the good tester from work, mine only does like 10 PSI lol

Agree if this is a new install its unlikely the tune is out enough to cause 40% fuel trims , its more likely its some form of hardware issue.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by snowtaipan

update from Edelbrock Cal:
Considering the DTC’s, high positive fuel trims at idle and extensive manifold leak checks already done, please get a fuel pressure reading from the low pressure pump at idle. Low fuel pressure from the in-tank pump would cause both the PI and DI injectors to perform abnormally per P1170 and P117B

Guess I'll be stealing the good tester from work, mine only does like 10 PSI lol

if you have not already checked make surexthe DI computer has all 3 mount bolts tight especially the bottom hard to get one, if its not earthed weird stuff happens

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by steve99

if you have not already checked make surexthe DI computer has all 3 mount bolts tight especially the bottom hard to get one, if its not earthed weird stuff happens

It will barely start and won’t idle without being grounded, but I guess something could be lose.

Should he log misfires in cylinders 1-4? Relevant?

[tomm.brz]

he has no significant misfire

also it has same behaviour both while using PI or DI
with DI ltft is even higher since the tendency of the stock injectors to lean out a bit because they are unbalanced in respect of the DI
to me the suggestion of Edelbrock is a bit of a waste of time, but since you can... do it
I took a look at all of his logs, the trims and all the other values (afr, injectors opening time and fuel quantity) look ok
Ltft goes high with maf voltage under 1.3volts, but to me, it's high because it really needs that extra fuel caused by a wrong maf scaling down there

The car even idles not bad, when i had a intake vacuum my idle would rise by itself and swing a lot and throw huge quantity of fuel that immediately be seen from logs and an extreme smell and ample from exhaust
Maybe i'm wrong and it's mechanic, hope you resolve