12-18-2017, 01:05 AM | #169 |
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12-18-2017, 01:42 AM | #170 | |
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True some results have shown that. But every dyno and car and location is diffrent. There maybe a recipe with parts or not. The potential is there we just haven’t found the correct combo to unlock it yet there are just so many variables to account for I still have my hopes up. |
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12-18-2017, 02:52 AM | #171 |
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But also most combinations of bolt-on mods shown some wall of ~+40whp NA as max for these. I don't believe anymore in any magic part to "unlock". IDDQD or IDQFA won't work. At most it's question of what minimum set of parts can be used to get most of that limit, like eg. ace's A350 with proper tune getting. But wall/limit still will be there.
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12-18-2017, 03:35 AM | #172 | |
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12-18-2017, 03:43 AM | #173 | |
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the 5kw power came due to better stock tune (although you only seem to get the additional power for a short period then tune goes rich to cool cats). It got slightly better stock header and slightly better intake/filter. The new manifold doesnt seem to do much NA. Couple of guys on here modded up 17 with header/exhaust tune and ended up with same power as the old motor which isnt surprising. The other isse your going to run into trying to rev it harder is oil pressure, it doesnt make good pressure at high rpm, so your going to need oiling mods. Have a look at Chris eleks build @celek i think, its still not finished and hes spending considerable amounts of money (he builds engines) |
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12-18-2017, 07:36 AM | #174 | |
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But my concern was not max power (I'm not even certain I care about a dyno reading altho my tuner "strongly recommended" I get one because of the fun he's having tuning it for me) and i have no interest in FI for my DD/seasonal track car, especially since the rest of the car (suspension components, fuel delivery, oiling, cooling, etc, etc) should be upgraded to accommodate the blown power. I've had several turbos, STIs, 944t & RX-7 R1, all great cars but the lag & heat they produce just aren't to my liking. So for about $3600K with installation my engine's complete, not cheap I guess, but my gawd this car is soo much better than stock. It's nice to feel done with something. But of course coilovers, E85 are lurking out there if I ever feel like spending... |
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12-18-2017, 07:56 AM | #175 |
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Try SC. Imho very NA-ish feel, and able to get past current NA max gains with ease.
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12-18-2017, 09:46 AM | #176 | |
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12-18-2017, 11:27 AM | #177 | |
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12-18-2017, 11:32 AM | #178 |
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The secret ingredient is the cams. Every dyno is different but the trend is the same with power drop off.
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12-18-2017, 12:13 PM | #179 | |
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I understand the support for our chassis (likely stiffer with a lower COG than the s2k), but our engine is simply inferiour to the F20C. |
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12-18-2017, 03:18 PM | #180 |
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Yet if you compare torque curves the FA20 has more torque for quite a large part of the rev band. The F20 makes it's power due to the extra RPM. If only peak power is key, then yes the F20 is superior.
Ps. I've come from a B-Series R engine to this car, so I understand the pros and cons...... man I miss my EK at times.
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12-18-2017, 04:20 PM | #181 |
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@Zentec agree :-)
I suppose my point is with basic mods NA the 2017 motor will be about same power potential. unless your going to spend craploads of money time effort and have the resources like Chris eleck, your not going to get much more out of the motors NA. ive no idea how much money he invested in his build (and good on him for doing it and having a go) but the amounts would be very substantial, I suspect when most people found out the cost they would no longer be interested. most will end up bolting on a fairly low boost SC or turbo kit to gain some power and keep the reliability and still do it at a relatively cheap price compared to trying to extract power NA. Last edited by steve99; 12-18-2017 at 04:31 PM. |
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12-18-2017, 04:42 PM | #182 |
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To me biggest signal of NA limits & lack of futureproof potential was turbo on new civic type-r. In my eyes Honda had best NA engines (at this class of cars/engines), but if even them finally gave up following suite of other manufacturers going FI sooner, i guess it takes too much effort to keep up this game with higher and higher eco limitations if one ties oneself with just NA. Hats off to toyobaru for this engine, but it might be among last engines of dying breed of reasonably priced high output car NA engines (supercar engines are just exceptions proving rule)
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