follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing)

Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) Everything related to the mechanical maintenance of the FR-S and BRZ


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-02-2014, 09:28 AM   #85
bluesubie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2004 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 681
Thanks: 28
Thanked 273 Times in 200 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by qqzj View Post
Are they really going to change it to 6000 miles? I read some Blackstone UOA here and I was going to go 7500 miles. What should we do now? 6k or 7.5k?
Yes, it's changing to 6,000 miles maximum starting with model year 2015. I read this at cars101.com and emailed Subaru of America and they confirmed it.

While a used oil analysis may show that the oil is still fine for continued use beyond a certain interval (6,000 miles or 7,500 miles), Blackstone will not be the ones to cover your Powertrain Warranty. If you don't have a 2015 you're fine going to 7,500 miles, although I wouldn't be surprised if dealers (or SoA) start recommending 6,000 miles across the board to keep it simple.

Some dealers have a really hard time when cars use different viscosities and different oil change intervals. People post things on the Forester board like their dealer insisting that the turbo Forester specs 0W-20 when no turbo Subaru specs 0W-20. Yet. Some dealers also have a hard time keeping up with different oil filter requirements.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 09:32 AM   #86
AZP Installs
 
AZP Installs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Drives: '11 STi->'14 BRZ | '14 Touareg TDi
Location: Kenilworth, NJ
Posts: 1,269
Thanks: 359
Thanked 557 Times in 371 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to AZP Installs
Dennis this is DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUFACTURER. Not a distributor. Why would the manufacturer want to not sell more expensive oil if they could?

Perhaps they changed the formula since those uoas?

I would love to sell this stuff to every ricer in nj but not if the manufacturer states it isn't safe.

Mike
AZP Installs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 10:15 AM   #87
bluesubie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2004 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 681
Thanks: 28
Thanked 273 Times in 200 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZP Installs View Post
Dennis this is DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUFACTURER. Not a distributor. Why would the manufacturer want to not sell more expensive oil if they could?

Perhaps they changed the formula since those uoas?

I would love to sell this stuff to every ricer in nj but not if the manufacturer states it isn't safe.

Mike
Dude, stop shouting at me. Who specifically is it from? Joey in Pomona? Well, I guess my engine's gonna blow up then. I'll be submitting my uoa on the 0W-40 soon. I'm not worried about anything because this oil has a calcium level of ~2400 ppm, mg of 9, and ZDDP lower than RT6.

IMO, you're really missing out on a sales opportunity because there are vendors on this forum selling it in droves.

Now, if you could dig a little deeper and find out specifically why this is not recommended for street use (instead of DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUFACTURER ), then I'm all ears. Of course, please start a different thread since this one is supposed to be about Mobil1.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 10:31 AM   #88
AZP Installs
 
AZP Installs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Drives: '11 STi->'14 BRZ | '14 Touareg TDi
Location: Kenilworth, NJ
Posts: 1,269
Thanks: 359
Thanked 557 Times in 371 Posts
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to AZP Installs
The follow up from Motul's tech department is that the additive packs are not compliant with any of the required ratings API, ILLSAC or ACEA. Therefore Motul does not recommend it for daily driven street cars and furthermore feel it is a waste of customers hard earned money to put in a non race car.

This is from the Motul corp tech department as of this morning.

So unlike all the other resellers out there who would sell anything that makes them a profit, I actually value my customers loyalty and value the fact they work hard for their money just like me and won't oversell them on things they don't need.

Just like all the vendors selling folks coilovers for the street, when it is completely a waste.

Sorry but I actually can go to sleep at night knowing I didn't rip them off on products and services they didn't need.

Mike
AZP Installs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 12:09 PM   #89
viscositosis.rex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: Currently 2018 Taco
Location: san jose CA
Posts: 152
Thanks: 16
Thanked 41 Times in 31 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
With regard to relatively thick ester based oils, why does RedLine have high fe numbers and Motul low, low fe numbers? Is it the scavenger effect?
With regard to groupIII+ oils, why does relatively very thin Sustina and TGMO run so clean, and shear so little? Why does thin MGMO shear with high amounts of moly in the oil.
With regard to deposit control, why does groupIII Castrol with a moderate NOACK score better than Amsoil in the TEOST? Don't we need to be smart about NOACK as well as VI/VII?
With regard to driving a BRZ/FRS is the goal good track times and also passing a smog check?
Wouldn't it seem that a thin GF6 compliant GTL oil would be the answer?
Just asking-in a whispered tone of voice.

Last edited by viscositosis.rex; 05-02-2014 at 12:21 PM.
viscositosis.rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 12:27 PM   #90
gpshumway
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2007 WRX
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I get my 300V for free with Subaru Mastercard Rewards!
Well, not really free as you're forgoing other rewards programs. I flew to Japan on my credit card points this year.

Quote:
I think of long drain as the maximum allowed by Subaru (or maybe "long-ish"), since most people change well before that anyway. I'm guessing that the BRZ, and I presume the FR-S?, will be dialed back to 6,000 miles maximum beginning with the 2015 model year like the rest of the Subaru line-up (U.S.).

Not a long drain interval by any definition! I can see them dialing it back for certain cars in certain conditions (hard driven 86's, the turbo models, etc.), but it doesn't make since to do it across the board. Probably easier for dealers to remember.

-Dennis
Subaru has short drain intervals as a rule, but that may be driven by conservatism in their recommendations. API and ILSAC specs don't differentiate between synthetic and conventional, so you could theoretically formulate a synthetic with an additive package capable of only 5,000 miles (think Amsoil OE). Given the lack of drain interval requirements in the oil specs Subaru has to recommend an interval which will be acceptable on every oil that meets them. That would include Valvoline Synpower, Quaker State UD, and the old Subaru/Idemitsu API SM 0w20. All the above have mediocre TBN retention at best, the API SM Idemitsu oil was awful in my Honda, lasting no longer than Honda's syn-blend 5w20. Oils like Pennzoil Ultra, Mobil 1 AFE and especially Mobil 1 EP are obviously capable of longer drain intervals, even in a Subaru.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 12:54 PM   #91
gpshumway
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: 2007 WRX
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 28
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by viscositosis.rex View Post
With regard to relatively thick ester based oils, why does RedLine have high fe numbers and Motul low, low fe numbers? Is it the scavenger effect?
I wouldn't say there's a big difference between the two. Remember there are severe limitations on what particle sizes show up in UOA. Also different driving conditions have a huge effect on Fe numbers. I doubt there are enough samples to make a useful comparison between the two, though I'm willing to be proven wrong. Redline certainly hasn't shown high Fe in my WRX. High copper, but not Fe.

Quote:
With regard to groupIII+ oils, why does relatively very thin Sustina and TGMO run so clean, and shear so little? Why does thin MGMO shear with high amounts of moly in the oil.
With regard to deposit control, why does groupIII Castrol with a moderate NOACK score better than Amsoil in the TEOST? Don't we need to be smart about NOACK as well as VI/VII?
With regard to driving a BRZ/FRS is the goal good track times and also passing a smog check?
Wouldn't it seem that a thin GF6 compliant GTL oil would be the answer?
Just asking-in a whispered tone of voice.
Run clean? You mean stay the same color? Color is in no way indicative of oil quality, some additive packages darken quickly, others don't.

As to shear, be careful, you need an oil sample in the 1,000-3,000 mile range to really know. Shearing reduces viscosity, but oxidation, volatility and soot inclusion increase viscosity. Shearing happens soon in the OCI and then the other factors catch up, just because the oil came out of the engine the same viscosity it went in 5,000 miles ago doesn't mean it didn't shear. An oil which doesn't shear should get thicker by the end of the OCI. See my last run on Redline 5w30 in the NASIOC link above.

What would moly have to do with shearing? The Mazda oil shears because it's chock full of shear-prone viscosity index improvers.

NOACK is a general indicator of the quality of a base stock, that is a base stock with a narrower bell curve of molecular weights will have a lower NOACK than the same viscosity base stock with a broader molecular weight distribution. NOACK of a finished oil can be tricky though, some additives can actually reduce NOACK below that of the base stock, others increase it, it's simply one factor to consider.

The TEOST 33C deposit test is one of several deposit tests in the API/ILSAC sequences. Since we don't know how the oils performed in the TEOST MHT, Sequence IIIG, or Sequence VG tests, it's impossible to make an evaluation of the relative performance of those oils when it comes to "deposits" generically. Redline did very poor in that test, despite base stocks which stand up excellently to high temperatures, most likely due to the high levels of moly which can be problematic in turbochargers.

I don't know that GF6 will really change the calculus much it'll be a useful incremental improvement, but nothing a good GF5 oil won't provide.

In the end, I think the best way to evaluate an oil is by the performance specs it meets. The oil in discussion here, M1 AFE, is the only 0w20 I know of claimed by its maker to pass the Ford 5w20 specs, which means it passes the TEOST 33C requirements that are not required of 0w20 oils in general. Dexos, and ACEA A1/B1 are also specs that add to the confidence that the oil performs well.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 01:44 PM   #92
viscositosis.rex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: Currently 2018 Taco
Location: san jose CA
Posts: 152
Thanks: 16
Thanked 41 Times in 31 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Good stuff, gpshumway. I appreciate your passion about motor oil. WRX/BRZ. The boxer engines give everyone a chance to get serious about the motor oil situation. Having been banned by from bitog by Granny in the Ozarks, I treasure the priviledge to talk about motor oil here.
I used Sustina 0W20 for 60k hard miles and conducted plenty of used oil analysis. Rest assured, I don't judge oil by it's color, smell, taste, or marketing. There are lots of pretty bottles out there.
Sustina shows a little initial shearing. Then it really stabilizes. There was some oxidative thickening between 17-19k miles. The flash point was at threshhold at 20k miles. The TBN/ TAN ratio was not alarming. Wear numbers looked very good. I enjoyed noticeably improved performance over all other oils, including TGMO, which is slightly thicker.
My basis for claiming that Sustina runs clean is this: I immediately followed up my 60k mile run on Sustina with a fill of Pennzoil Ultra SN 5W30. This oil is GTL and has a boat load of calcium. It appeared pristine for 12k miles, indicating there was nothing to clean.
I am fascinated about motor oil. As a mere consumer who happens to drive 100k miles a year, I enjoy to share and listen. The truth about motor oil, latest advances in motor oil, these are things I can't get enough of.
viscositosis.rex is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to viscositosis.rex For This Useful Post:
illmatic (05-02-2014)
Old 05-02-2014, 02:21 PM   #93
bluesubie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2004 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 681
Thanks: 28
Thanked 273 Times in 200 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZP Installs View Post
The follow up from Motul's tech department is that the additive packs are not compliant with any of the required ratings API, ILLSAC or ACEA.
This was already covered gpshumway above, and I usually mention it as well when people bring it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway
Motul 300V is targeted toward track use, so it's great for high temperatures but won't do long drain intervals. It also doesn't carry any API certification so it could present warranty problems.
The same goes for all Red Line oil and Amsoil's Signature Series. No API, ILSAC, or ACEA certifications. Most people say you can't run 300V on the street because it doesn't have any detergents, which is what I thought you meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZP Installs View Post
So unlike all the other resellers out there who would sell anything that makes them a profit, I actually value my customers loyalty and value the fact they work hard for their money just like me and won't oversell them on things they don't need.
Oh snap!

Enjoy your lunch in Hackensack!

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bluesubie For This Useful Post:
AZP Installs (05-02-2014)
Old 05-10-2014, 08:39 AM   #94
BRZnut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: BRZ DGM Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 5
Thanked 431 Times in 250 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I have always been a Mobil-1 fan and currently have it in my BRZ. But reading a lot about the new Pennzoil Ultra Plat (the one made from natural gas). It claims to be better than Mobil-1 and that it has a Noack of 12.5.


Opinions? Anyone using it? Anyone know if Walmart has it in the 5 qt jugs?


Thanks

BRZnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2014, 09:22 AM   #95
bluesubie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2004 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 681
Thanks: 28
Thanked 273 Times in 200 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRZnut View Post
It claims to be better than Mobil-1 and that it has a Noack of 12.5.
PUP is great oil, but just an fyi that the comparisons that Pennzoil does (ASTM Sequence IIIG and VG tests) to Mobil1 is on the 5W-30 grades.

http://www.pennzoil.com/motor-oil/

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2014, 10:43 PM   #96
BRZnut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: BRZ DGM Limited
Location: USA
Posts: 1,237
Thanks: 5
Thanked 431 Times in 250 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
PUP is great oil, but just an fyi that the comparisons that Pennzoil does (ASTM Sequence IIIG and VG tests) to Mobil1 is on the 5W-30 grades.

http://www.pennzoil.com/motor-oil/

-Dennis

Just noticed that!
BRZnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 11:59 AM   #97
Sportsguy83
I Love custom Turbo kits
 
Sportsguy83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Drives: Limited BRZ
Location: Miami
Posts: 10,770
Thanks: 20,004
Thanked 8,343 Times in 4,361 Posts
Mentioned: 441 Post(s)
Tagged: 12 Thread(s)
Garage
@viscositosis.rex @gpshumway @bluesubie @SubieNate

I have a boosted BRZ with E85, stock block, close to 500 whp, hard driven on the street (highway pulls since there are ZERO canyons in Miami...), non daily driver, would change oil for a track day to something more robust. I have no Cats, so if one of them will save the engine but kill cats.. no fawks given...

So far I've only used Motul 0w-30 Xlite and Eco energy 5w-30.

I had a misfortune the last couple of weeks where a oil line popped off a few times and thus spent a ridiculous amount of money on oil just to pour it on the ground... I really REALLY want to find an off the shelve oil...

Which one of the below oils fit my car better? 5w-30 idea comes out of Subaru recommending 5w-30 for the FA20DIT.


Mobil 1 regular 5w-30

SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 100ºC 11.0
@ 40ºC 61.7
Viscosity Index 172
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.8
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.1
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -42
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.855

Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w-30

SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 100ºC 11.7
@ 40ºC 69.2
Viscosity Index 165
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.3
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -39
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.856

Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30

Viscosity @ 100ºC 10.6
@ 40ºC 59.8
Viscosity Index 169
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.8
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.0
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -40
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.851

Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30

SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 100ºC 12.1
@ 40ºC 72.8
Viscosity Index 164
Sulphated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.6
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.58
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -45
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 254
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.850

Last edited by Sportsguy83; 05-28-2014 at 12:13 PM.
Sportsguy83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2014, 02:47 PM   #98
D_Thissen
Senior Member
 
D_Thissen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: '13 Argento FR-S (Sold)
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,126
Thanks: 3,209
Thanked 1,439 Times in 855 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Sorry in advance but Im a complete newb here. Would this be good for a stock car (or even with just bolt-ons)?

http://www.mobil.ca/Canada-English-L...000-0w20.aspx#
Mobil Super 3000 0W-20
Gravity, API 35.4
Specific Gravity 0.848
Pour Point, °C (°F ) -42 (-44)
Flash Point, °C (°F), ASTM D 92 238 (460)
Viscosity cSt at 40°C 44.9
Viscosity cSt at 100°C 8.6
CCS, cP 5670@-35°C
MRV, cP 26,800@-40°C
Viscosity Index 173
Resource Conserving Yes

Outside air temps here in the summer range from 10C - 40C (50F-110F) and Winters Down to -30C (-22F).. Car is mostly a DD with the occasional auto x in the summer(Maybe twice a month) and some spirited driving in between.

Thanks in advance and sorry if this horse has been beaten to death.

Dan
__________________
D_Thissen is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mobil 1 Oil on Sale White64Goat Mechanical Maintenance (Oil, Fluids, Break-In, Servicing) 14 03-12-2014 11:21 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.