Is there a oil filter design change from Gen1 to Gen2?

[dreamwonder]

Does anyone know if there is a oil filter design change from Gen1 to Gen2?
Reason I am asking is because Toyota is potentially denying warranty because a genuine Toyota filter made for gen1 was used on a gen2. More as it develops.

[dragoontwo]

They are different filters. The biggest difference is filter area. Bypass pressures are the same.

130 13-20

170 22+

[dragoontwo]

Under warranty, it is best to use stock sized or cross referenced filter so this doesn't happen.

It probably won't hurt the engine though.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by dreamwonder

Does anyone know if there is a oil filter design change from Gen1 to Gen2?
Reason I am asking is because Toyota is potentially denying warranty because a genuine Toyota filter made for gen1 was used on a gen2. More as it develops.

Considering that if I got a Fram filter, the same filter is used for all 2013-2020 FA20 and 2022 FA24.... design change or not, it's all the same thing if you don't use a genuine Toyota filter...

[dreamwonder]

Toyota denied warranty. Goodwill denied as well.
Reason:
1. Previous gen oil filter was used.
2. 0w30 oil was used.
3. Car hit 129mph at 8300rpm on 5th gear ???

Car saw 32 days with 14k total miles before engine failed. If I was at fault, I will own up to it. But wow...this is my 3rd 86 and have hundreds of days on previous 2 cars.

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by dreamwonder

Toyota denied warranty. Goodwill denied as well.
Reason:
1. Previous gen oil filter was used.
2. 0w30 oil was used.
3. Car hit 129mph at 8300rpm on 5th gear ???

Car saw 32 days with 14k total miles before engine failed. If I was at fault, I will own up to it. But wow...this is my 3rd 86 and have hundreds of days on previous 2 cars.

1. Kind of on the fence on that one, but at the end of the day I guess even if it fits and sits, doesn't necessarily means is the right one.



2. Don't see how using a different weight of oil would cause an issue unless they can tell it wasn't a certified one for some reason. You could request a lab diagnosis from Blackstone.



3. They can log onto your ECU and look at your driving habits. There's probably more to it, and what it really comes down to. Toyota has already come out publicly and said that even though you may track the vehicle, they'll look at claims in a case by case basis. Though yours might not be the case, if they can see an abuse habit, they can deny any warranty claim. Even in the event that everything else checked out (Oil, filter, etc)



What were your diving habits? Best of luck.

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by dreamwonder

Toyota denied warranty. Goodwill denied as well.
Reason:
1. Previous gen oil filter was used.
2. 0w30 oil was used.
3. Car hit 129mph at 8300rpm on 5th gear ???

Car saw 32 days with 14k total miles before engine failed. If I was at fault, I will own up to it. But wow...this is my 3rd 86 and have hundreds of days on previous 2 cars.

This isn't the first time I've heard of cars in general (more so WRX/STI, EJ and FA/FBs) having engine failures under high load in high gears.

In higher gears, winding it out to 115MPH+, you're at those higher RPMs for much longer than if you were in 2nd or even 3rd gear. Given it's at high load, high RPM, long duration... heat builds up, oiling may become an issue (RTV issues, prehaps), etc.

The push back I get from a lot of owners who have failures is that the car should be capable of being at WOT, at 125MPH, in 5th gear like a race car. I think we have to understand that yes, this is a sports car, but it's not a "race car". Even for track days, it should be unlikely you're WOT in 5th really on most tracks. 4th for sure, maxing out around 105MPH. Going from 105MPH to 125MPH through all of 5th gear is a different story.

These are production street cars. They're really intended to be at max speeds of 80-85MPH. Of course they're capable of going 100MPH+, but when you're asking it to do 125MPH+ at WOT.... get what I'm saying?

You can also get into some other things like was 91 or 93 octane used. 93 giving you perhaps a bit more buffer from detonation. The quality of the fuel too. Ambient temperature, oil temperature (270+ is getting into no-no territory), etc.

Also factor in that the large majority of 2022+ do have some RTV sealing blocking the oil pickup, so in 5th at high RPMs, high load, this might have come to play if it was blocking a larger portion of the pickup.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

This isn't the first time I've heard of cars in general (more so WRX/STI, EJ and FA/FBs) having engine failures under high load in high gears.

In higher gears, winding it out to 115MPH+, you're at those higher RPMs for much longer than if you were in 2nd or even 3rd gear. Given it's at high load, high RPM, long duration... heat builds up, oiling may become an issue (RTV issues, prehaps), etc.

The push back I get from a lot of owners who have failures is that the car should be capable of being at WOT, at 125MPH, in 5th gear like a race car. I think we have to understand that yes, this is a sports car, but it's not a "race car". Even for track days, it should be unlikely you're WOT in 5th really on most tracks. 4th for sure, maxing out around 105MPH. Going from 105MPH to 125MPH through all of 5th gear is a different story.

These are production street cars. They're really intended to be at max speeds of 80-85MPH. Of course they're capable of going 100MPH+, but when you're asking it to do 125MPH+ at WOT.... get what I'm saying?

You can also get into some other things like was 91 or 93 octane used. 93 giving you perhaps a bit more buffer from detonation. The quality of the fuel too. Ambient temperature, oil temperature (270+ is getting into no-no territory), etc.

Also factor in that the large majority of 2022+ do have some RTV sealing blocking the oil pickup, so in 5th at high RPMs, high load, this might have come to play if it was blocking a larger portion of the pickup.

Most of the tracks I have driven(5) have a 5th gear 120+mph straight, one has 2,

[cmiovino]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Most of the tracks I have driven(5) have a 5th gear 120+mph straight, one has 2,

I might be biased towards our local race (Pitt Race) where if you're lucky, it might grab 5th for a second. ~110mph in a first gen twin at least.

Are these 120mph in a twin? Seems like a damn long straight.

[Code Monkey]

Road Atlanta's back straight you can hit 130mph, VIR both front and back straight.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

I might be biased towards our local race (Pitt Race) where if you're lucky, it might grab 5th for a second. ~110mph in a first gen twin at least.

Are these 120mph in a twin? Seems like a damn long straight.

Yes, 120mph NA First Gen. Was hitting mid 120's before adding aero.

[dreamwonder]

Garmin is saying 127mph max at the Glen on the Gen2.

[dreamwonder]

I highly doubt that I would downshift first before braking at the bus stop...lol.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by cmiovino

I might be biased towards our local race (Pitt Race) where if you're lucky, it might grab 5th for a second. ~110mph in a first gen twin at least.

Are these 120mph in a twin? Seems like a damn long straight.

The v-min of the turn leading onto the straight plays a major factor in top speed. And the turn at the end of the straight is also a factor, albeit a smaller one.