Major Security Flaw! - Page 5 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

rice_classic · 04-30-2013, 06:06 PM

"Keyless Entry"

DBacon1052 · 04-30-2013, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenrir

It bloody well should be. How can anyone live in a technologically driven society, with the means to buy a $25~k (USD) car, and not understand the basics of radio waves?

Pretty sure they teach that crap in high school.

Everyone else in this thread is saying "not to sound like a ****..." but I do mean to sound like a ****. Ignorance isn't an excuse to be ignorant.

haha, rf stands for radio frequency. Didn't put that together yesterday. I was running on about 2 hours of sleep. Okay so that actually is common knowledge, but not everyone knows that your key can mess with someone else's key.

Lonewolf · 04-30-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neutron256

No offense, but you are seriously over reacting to this. Watching/listening for the confirmation when you hit lock is just common sense. If people can't be troubled to do that then its their own fault. This is not a flaw, its just a limitation of the technology. No wireless system works 100% of the time.

But if you really want to write the FCC go ahead I'm sure they'll get a laugh as they complain to each other about people wasting their time.

Actually some first year g37 owners were having issues with their cell phones interfering with their key fobs (during lock/unlock/startup), and people complained to both Infiniti and the FCC, and guess what...a new key fob design was introduced the next year to eliminate that type of interference...

DBacon1052 · 04-30-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Actually some first year g37 owners were having issues with their cell phones interfering with their key fobs (during lock/unlock/startup), and people complained to both Infiniti and the FCC, and guess what...a new key fob design was introduced the next year to eliminate that type of interference...

Scion replied back and told me to have my car inspected (Dafuq). They said they haven't heard of the complaint before.

whaap · 04-30-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadstyle

This is the most ridiculous thread..

Since I wasn't aware of this little "glitch" I don't consider it rediculous at all. I'm grateful for knowing this.

killerkid08 · 05-01-2013, 04:19 PM

funny as this whole, you can steal a car if you want to. I'm pretty sure this is how my speed3 was stolen back in january. No glass found, car located next day, stripped down and what wasn't taken was destroyed.

Some people just don't like other people having faster things.

Fenrir · 05-01-2013, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerkid08

funny as this whole, you can steal a car if you want to. I'm pretty sure this is how my speed3 was stolen back in january. No glass found, car located next day, stripped down and what wasn't taken was destroyed.

Some people just don't like other people having faster things.

Why would they steal a speed3 then?

dsgerbc · 05-02-2013, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tut

Buy a BRZ Limited. Problem solved.

This. Don't remember the last time I had to use the remote to lock/unlock the car.

naikaidriver · 05-02-2013, 12:01 PM

While I won't go into great detail about what I spent a significant chunk of my career doing for a living, how I know this, or specifics, this "discovery" is something many people have known for a LONG time.

It is STAGGERING how easy it is to "listen in" on wide ranges of RF frequencies that different manufacturers like to use for various devices. It doesn't take long to figure out the communications stream and "play back" critical bits if used in context.

Any of you use a proximity card for an ID badge for work? Just place the badge up to the reader and "beep", you get in? This is accomplished by a small antennae within the card that when exposed to the proper frequency responds with the card's facility code and card number in binary which is compared to a card holder database that is kept locally on the card reader controller board located elsewhere. Its not complicated to send a similar signal to a guy with his badge around his neck, record and decode the response (most are Weigand format). These types cards are used all over the world to protect all kinds of facilities and this issue is "relatively" common knowledge.

THAT is what I would call a Major Security Vulnerability!

Discovering that two similar RF devices in close proximity interfere with each other is hardly new and while it may result in a purse or ipod being taken, doesn't get the "would be thief" any closer to getting off with your car. ALL FRS/BRZ/GT86s are equipped with an immobilizer circuit that has to communicate to the key via, you guessed it, RF or the ECU will kill the fuel system.

Sure its not difficult for someone who understands the technology to get around but I think its safe to say that its far beyond the capabilities of the vast majority of car thieves out there.

Scott

Trojan_SC · 05-02-2013, 01:06 PM

It happens on almost every car. The remotes are made to accept interference from just about anything due to FCC regulations. It happens on my FJ as well. Maybe you should just be smarter than the key and make sure to hear the "beep" or see the lights flash when you lock. Neither will happen if another remote interferes. Sorry, but you still have to be responsible for your property. Bummer

nayrk · 05-02-2013, 11:26 PM

I have paranoia for my car so I always lock it with the fob and then pull the handle even if I hear the mechanical locking sound. That's just me though.

njccmd2002 · 05-03-2013, 01:36 AM

the car beeps, and flashes and you can hear the lock sound.

If you are deaf blind and careless, you should not drive a car. and they will steal your 25k scion..... in a heartbeat than the ferrari next spot.

cool information posted, but? but? cool story bro?

Hanakuso · 05-04-2013, 12:31 AM

I just came back from a meet and we tested it. It sure does block the unlock/lock between FRS/FRS. When me and a guy with a BRZ left it blocked me. Not 100% with the BRZ/FRS since I could of just misclicked, but i'm pretty sure I didn't.

choi0706 · 05-04-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

I just came back from a meet and we tested it. It sure does block the unlock/lock between FRS/FRS. When me and a guy with a BRZ left it blocked me. Not 100% with the BRZ/FRS since I could of just misclicked, but i'm pretty sure I didn't.

doesn't bug me, I press it till the car honks at me..

04-30-2013, 06:06 PM	#57
rice_classic Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: Nevermorange FRS Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 4,160 Thanks: 755 Thanked 4,200 Times in 1,803 Posts Mentioned: 77 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	"Keyless Entry" __________________ SCCA T4 - FRS

05-02-2013, 12:01 PM	#65
naikaidriver Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S AT Asphalt Location: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 770 Thanks: 145 Thanked 673 Times in 289 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	While I won't go into great detail about what I spent a significant chunk of my career doing for a living, how I know this, or specifics, this "discovery" is something many people have known for a LONG time. It is STAGGERING how easy it is to "listen in" on wide ranges of RF frequencies that different manufacturers like to use for various devices. It doesn't take long to figure out the communications stream and "play back" critical bits if used in context. Any of you use a proximity card for an ID badge for work? Just place the badge up to the reader and "beep", you get in? This is accomplished by a small antennae within the card that when exposed to the proper frequency responds with the card's facility code and card number in binary which is compared to a card holder database that is kept locally on the card reader controller board located elsewhere. Its not complicated to send a similar signal to a guy with his badge around his neck, record and decode the response (most are Weigand format). These types cards are used all over the world to protect all kinds of facilities and this issue is "relatively" common knowledge. THAT is what I would call a Major Security Vulnerability! Discovering that two similar RF devices in close proximity interfere with each other is hardly new and while it may result in a purse or ipod being taken, doesn't get the "would be thief" any closer to getting off with your car. ALL FRS/BRZ/GT86s are equipped with an immobilizer circuit that has to communicate to the key via, you guessed it, RF or the ECU will kill the fuel system. Sure its not difficult for someone who understands the technology to get around but I think its safe to say that its far beyond the capabilities of the vast majority of car thieves out there. Scott __________________

05-03-2013, 01:36 AM	#68
njccmd2002 Toyota Freak Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: Whiteout FRS Location: Jackson, TN Posts: 364 Thanks: 47 Thanked 150 Times in 92 Posts Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	the car beeps, and flashes and you can hear the lock sound. If you are deaf blind and careless, you should not drive a car. and they will steal your 25k scion..... in a heartbeat than the ferrari next spot. cool information posted, but? but? cool story bro? __________________

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05-01-2013, 04:19 PM	#62
killerkid08 Cool Stuff Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: Cool Car Location: Kennesaw, GA Posts: 486 Thanks: 57 Thanked 100 Times in 78 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	funny as this whole, you can steal a car if you want to. I'm pretty sure this is how my speed3 was stolen back in january. No glass found, car located next day, stripped down and what wasn't taken was destroyed. Some people just don't like other people having faster things.

05-02-2013, 01:06 PM	#66
Trojan_SC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: '14 Monogram FR-S(RIP) Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 909 Thanks: 258 Thanked 417 Times in 202 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	It happens on almost every car. The remotes are made to accept interference from just about anything due to FCC regulations. It happens on my FJ as well. Maybe you should just be smarter than the key and make sure to hear the "beep" or see the lights flash when you lock. Neither will happen if another remote interferes. Sorry, but you still have to be responsible for your property. Bummer

05-02-2013, 11:26 PM	#67
nayrk Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: 2013 Asphalt Scion FRS Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 25 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I have paranoia for my car so I always lock it with the fob and then pull the handle even if I hear the mechanical locking sound. That's just me though.

05-04-2013, 12:31 AM	#69
Hanakuso Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Drives: FR-S Location: California Posts: 1,956 Thanks: 294 Thanked 673 Times in 390 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	I just came back from a meet and we tested it. It sure does block the unlock/lock between FRS/FRS. When me and a guy with a BRZ left it blocked me. Not 100% with the BRZ/FRS since I could of just misclicked, but i'm pretty sure I didn't.

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