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Old 02-01-2017, 11:56 PM   #15
cjm_brz
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Originally Posted by Silver Cervy View Post
ffs, please tell me you knew about the cat removal...

I ain't mad about the lack of knowledge but you basically wasted $800 from not researching beforehand. I was an idiot when I joined here (and I still am), but I at least asked questions before making decisions like this.

And no, you cannot use a catless header without getting a tune. There have been other methods reported on here but none of them are 100% reliable.


I got them for $400. I research ever product I want before purchasing them. The borla uel headers run fine on all the other frs/brz that I know without a tune.


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Old 02-02-2017, 12:15 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by cjm_brz View Post
I got them for $400. I research ever product I want before purchasing them. The borla uel headers run fine on all the other frs/brz that I know without a tune.


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$400 is still no joke, but it was a good job you bought it used.

I'd like to see "all the other frs/brz" that have magic ecu's and doesn't trip a cel without the cat. Some cars go a few hundred miles before the cel pops up so just because it doesn't show up right away doesn't mean it won't ever.

I'm sorry but reading your comments it looks like you had no idea about the effects of deleting the cat when you bought the header.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:20 AM   #17
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http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493

I read through that a couple times but I'm no expert. Ive only been on here for a couple months now and still won't get my car for another two weeks. As far as I'm concerned, Tcoat, has been on here forever and extremely knowledgeable so id take his word on needing a tune.
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Old 02-02-2017, 03:02 AM   #18
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Borla UEL Headers sent car into a low power mode

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Originally Posted by KB_BRZ View Post
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493

I read through that a couple times but I'm no expert. Ive only been on here for a couple months now and still won't get my car for another two weeks. As far as I'm concerned, Tcoat, has been on here forever and extremely knowledgeable so id take his word on needing a tune.


Here I'll help summon the coat but he might be grumpy BC this is a common thread :P I present ..@Tcoat
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:48 AM   #19
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Its not hard to understand, after market header needs a tune.
Get the OFT, keep your aftermarket header, life good.
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Old 02-02-2017, 04:54 AM   #20
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The headers were installed perfectly fine. They are catted and I drove the car for 100 miles under 4K rpms. I disconnected the battery during the install to reset the ecu as well.
Even you reset the ECU 3000 times it is still learning the stock map. Nothing will change dramatically.

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I got them for $400. I research ever product I want before purchasing them. The borla uel headers run fine on all the other frs/brz that I know without a tune.
I have the same header as your, and I tuned it and car feels great.
They are doing it wrong, but you can do it right and show them.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:19 AM   #21
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If you change the intake or output of air you have to change the tune to deal with it. Just slapping parts on will not work. The ECU has the ability to change things within the OEM specs and equipment but does not adjust for things beyond the scope of the original tune.
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I repeat^^^^^^^^^
There is no magic bullet that you can just bolt on the car and have work miracles without a tune to accommodate it. None. The car can only adjust to the OEM perimeters and any changes beyond them will mess with you.
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Originally Posted by KB_BRZ View Post
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81493

I read through that a couple times but I'm no expert. Ive only been on here for a couple months now and still won't get my car for another two weeks. As far as I'm concerned, Tcoat, has been on here forever and extremely knowledgeable so id take his word on needing a tune.
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Here I'll help summon the coat but he might be grumpy BC this is a common thread :P I present ..@Tcoat
I have already said my part. The OP doesn't want to hear that for some reason. If it is a money issue then there are inexpensive tuning options out there.

I don't get grumpy for common threads I just link the info already available. However, when somebody asks a question, gets many answers that are all the same and then argues that the info isn't correct because it isn't what they want to hear...
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:18 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by cjm_brz View Post
The headers were installed perfectly fine. They are catted and I drove the car for 100 miles under 4K rpms. I disconnected the battery during the install to reset the ecu as well.


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Well, I guess with that said it didn't quite workout for you. I didn't know it was an auto so now that I know that it makes a little more sense why its acting that way. Sorry about that. Well just wait a little bit to get a tune and you can put them back on and enjoy.
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:05 PM   #23
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The truth has been spoken!!
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by KnightRyderx2 View Post
Well, I guess with that said it didn't quite workout for you. I didn't know it was an auto so now that I know that it makes a little more sense why its acting that way. Sorry about that. Well just wait a little bit to get a tune and you can put them back on and enjoy.


Thanks, I appreciate it.


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Old 02-02-2017, 06:03 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cjm_brz View Post
I installed the borla unequal length headers on my 2015 automatic brz and the car would not accelerate in 5th or 6th gear. I'm not getting a CEL nor are the O2 sensors affected. I ended up changing the headers back to stock and the car is running almost the way it used to. I reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery terminals with no change. Does anyone have any ideas of how I can run the headers without have to get a tune?


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You can run catless header without tune, you will likely throw a CEL code P0420 after a while.


It wont produce optimum power without cam vvt changes.


The car should run ok , if its not then you likely had a problem with header install, ie 02 sensors not in correct positions or not plugged inot correct sockets, not screwed in all the way so ring on sensor is not loose ,you usually need to run a thread chaser through the header bungs.
Or you had an exhaust leak always use new gaskets


or header was cracked (early borlas cracked a lot) or flanges warped creating air leak


notice you also had perrin CAI fitted, this is more likely to be ausing problems that a propertly fitted header


it will be best if you get tune to suit the cai (maf scaling) and catless header


but P0240 cat efficience cel code will not cause limp home mode where rpm is limited to 4000, it will cause cruise control to be inoperable though
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
You can run catless header without tune, you will likely throw a CEL code P0420 after a while.


It wont produce optimum power without cam vvt changes.


The car should run ok , if its not then you likely had a problem with header install, ie 02 sensors not in correct positions or not plugged inot correct sockets, not screwed in all the way so ring on sensor is not loose ,you usually need to run a thread chaser through the header bungs.
Or you had an exhaust leak always use new gaskets


or header was cracked (early borlas cracked a lot) or flanges warped creating air leak


notice you also had perrin CAI fitted, this is more likely to be ausing problems that a propertly fitted header


it will be best if you get tune to suit the cai (maf scaling) and catless header


but P0240 cat efficience cel code will not cause limp home mode where rpm is limited to 4000, it will cause cruise control to be inoperable though
Confused now. Many previous posts say it won't run right, and now you are saying it will run fine. Not trying to argue in any way, just needing clarification. Are you taking into consideration his car is AT?

I am asking because I am interested in catted headers, and I won't have a tune. Not looking for any magical gains because I will get a tune in the future. Just want to know if the car will run normal. Kinda in it for the rumble sound first, performance later. Not trying to be a pain in the ass asking what has been asked before. Just trying to be informed.

2017 WRB BRZ
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:53 PM   #27
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Confused now. Many previous posts say it won't run right, and now you are saying it will run fine. Not trying to argue in any way, just needing clarification. Are you taking into consideration his car is AT?

I am asking because I am interested in catted headers, and I won't have a tune. Not looking for any magical gains because I will get a tune in the future. Just want to know if the car will run normal. Kinda in it for the rumble sound first, performance later. Not trying to be a pain in the ass asking what has been asked before. Just trying to be informed.

2017 WRB BRZ

If you change the header even for a catted one their is still a possibility that you will throw a cel code P0420


Will I get a CEL code
If you go to catless header you will get a CEL code P0420 (cat efficiency) it may thak a while to show up though.
Even some catted headers will still cause a cel code
You can try O2 spacers or de-foulers but they will not always work 100%
The only 100% way is to disable the code in the ECU usually done in aftermarket tunes.
The Cel code P0420 will stop the cruise control on your car from working, it wont go into limp home or low power mode.
Can be reset by removing battery connection or using obd tool to reset. It going to keep coming back until you disable it though.

Why you get CEL Code when changing header

Integrated in header is a primary catalytic converter. Their is the primary 02 sensor before this cat and a secondary 02 sensor after it. The ECU compares the reading from both and works out if the primary cat (in header) is working efficiently. If it detects abnormal readings it will set CEL Code P0420.
a tune for headers will disable Cel code code P0420 as well as optomising parameters for a header.


Changing any other exhaust components other than the header will not trigger a CEL code. Its only the primary cat in the header that is monitored by ECU, secondary cat in front pipe is not monitored.

Ok CEL codes covered.




If the header is fitted correctly ie no leaks and o2 not damaged etc then the car should still run fine. (never put a 02 spacer on Front 02 sensor as you will get problems, always on rear 02 sensor) no spacer need if you have tune.


The spacer doesn't effect AFR it just tries to fool ECU that their is still a cat in system.


Changing header wont affect AFR.


If it flows more then the MAF sensor which meters air entering engine will detect this and correct AFR. The afr with or without an aftermarket header will be same


A tune will optimise cam timing to suit header and adjust AFR and ignition timing for better power and torque.






Intakes are the part that can effect AFR as they can throw off the MAF sensor calibration/scaling and this will effect AFR.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
If you change the header even for a catted one their is still a possibility that you will throw a cel code P0420


Will I get a CEL code
If you go to catless header you will get a CEL code P0420 (cat efficiency) it may thak a while to show up though.
Even some catted headers will still cause a cel code
You can try O2 spacers or de-foulers but they will not always work 100%
The only 100% way is to disable the code in the ECU usually done in aftermarket tunes.
The Cel code P0420 will stop the cruise control on your car from working, it wont go into limp home or low power mode.
Can be reset by removing battery connection or using obd tool to reset. It going to keep coming back until you disable it though.

Why you get CEL Code when changing header

Integrated in header is a primary catalytic converter. Their is the primary 02 sensor before this cat and a secondary 02 sensor after it. The ECU compares the reading from both and works out if the primary cat (in header) is working efficiently. If it detects abnormal readings it will set CEL Code P0420.
a tune for headers will disable Cel code code P0420 as well as optomising parameters for a header.


Changing any other exhaust components other than the header will not trigger a CEL code. Its only the primary cat in the header that is monitored by ECU, secondary cat in front pipe is not monitored.

Ok CEL codes covered.




If the header is fitted correctly ie no leaks and o2 not damaged etc then the car should still run fine. (never put a 02 spacer on Front 02 sensor as you will get problems, always on rear 02 sensor) no spacer need if you have tune.


The spacer doesn't effect AFR it just tries to fool ECU that their is still a cat in system.


Changing header wont affect AFR.


If it flows more then the MAF sensor which meters air entering engine will detect this and correct AFR. The afr with or without an aftermarket header will be same


A tune will optimise cam timing to suit header and adjust AFR and ignition timing for better power and torque.






Intakes are the part that can effect AFR as they can throw off the MAF sensor calibration/scaling and this will effect AFR.
Thanks. I read the first part in the basic bolt on guides. The added info at the bottom was helpful. Cool. I feel reassured now. Just gotta make sure everything is bolted on properly. Then a tune when I get a chance.

2017 WRB BRZ
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