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Old 09-22-2012, 09:11 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by governor View Post
My guess is that it was hard parts.
Anyway, I just found out yesterday that I am getting a new ECU and that the parts my car has been waiting for (for 3 weeks) are not even going to be installed on the car.
So how long will you get your car back after the ecu? Mine went in last night for this problem and want my car back for a huge meet next weekend.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:17 PM   #674
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My guess is that it was hard parts.
Anyway, I just found out yesterday that I am getting a new ECU and that the parts my car has been waiting for (for 3 weeks) are not even going to be installed on the car.
do you know what code was thrown?
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:21 PM   #675
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do you know what code was thrown?
Can't remember exactly, been too long and been reading too many posts. I believe it was P0017. I'll see if I can get more details Monday.

From the service rep when they swapped the sensors (moved sensor from good side to error side and vice versa) they still got the same error. But I don't know if it was 16 or 17 after the swap.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:24 PM   #676
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So how long will you get your car back after the ecu? Mine went in last night for this problem and want my car back for a huge meet next weekend.
They sill cant tell me an ETA for the part. Some guys stateside seem to be getting it withing 2-5 days.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:34 PM   #677
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Can't remember exactly, been too long and been reading too many posts. I believe it was P0017. I'll see if I can get more details Monday.

From the service rep when they swapped the sensors (moved sensor from good side to error side and vice versa) they still got the same error. But I don't know if it was 16 or 17 after the swap.
If you could find out it would be helpful. I don't know why anyone thinks that moving sensors around would actually fix something. I think it would almost be impossible for one of them to break.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:57 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by Marrk View Post
What fix did they do on your car? ECU reflash/replace, or hardparts replace, or what?
They replaced an oil control valve and ECU. I dont know what this new code is. I'll be taking it in to the dealer again on Monday.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:29 PM   #679
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They replaced an oil control valve and ECU. I dont know what this new code is. I'll be taking it in to the dealer again on Monday.
One of my theories is that either low oil pressure or no oil pressure is getting to an affected Cam Gear. Understanding if the old code is the same as a new code would help (especially considering that both the hardware and the software [effectively] would have been replaced at that location)
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:31 AM   #680
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That video is immensely helpful.

Three questions (if you can answer them)

A) Is the implementation of the FA20's system "steplessly variable" or is there only one advance and one retard timing available?

B) I'm assuming the hydraulic pressure for actuation is travels down the camshaft; are the entry and egress points for the VVT system's oil closest to or farther away from the cam gear? (Edit: Or is the oil supply coming from the oil pump on the valve cover?)

C) What's the size of the largest particle which could safely work itself in and out of the system?
Being carefull here, but:

A) I haven't seen anything publicly released on this, so I will have to suggest an OBDII data logger. You'll find that hours of fun anyway ...

B) The BRZ engine repair manual on this forum shows the head/cover/camshaft and some of the oil holes.

C) Everything passes through the oil filter. The crankshaft and connecting rod oil clearances are pretty much the smallest on an engine - with no problems there ...
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:21 AM   #681
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Being carefull here, but:

A) I haven't seen anything publicly released on this, so I will have to suggest an OBDII data logger. You'll find that hours of fun anyway ...
I have one but unfortunately I can only access the data stream for "Engine Timing", not the Cam Shaft Position data for the four shafts. I am looking into a suitable Toyota/Subaru CAN-BUS compatible setup I could afford.

If worse comes to worse I could try to connect an O-Scope to the crank shaft and cam position sensors (getting those probes in there to clear the belt would be a pain in the a$$ but doable). It would be pretty hard to drive with that setup tho...
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:25 AM   #682
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Update...

Received my FRS back from dealership two days ago after being in shop for second time,
They did the ecu flash after the fact that they went in and changed out hardware the previous time in shop... I'm kinda upset and feel like my vehicle is an effing guinea pig test vehicle, tell me this SOA, why would you go in, change out hardware, not fix the problem, but on second time In shop, do a software update... Very confusing, have lost most confidence In owning this FRS. Total number of days in repair 14...

I have also been in contact with A scion rep by the name of Clayton, he assured me that I would be receiving compensation for my troubles... What ever that is, I asked him what is considered compensation for my situation, he followed by 'it's a case by case scenario'
I've come to the conclusion that scion has hired very well trained and intelligent reps to say the same thing to most everyone with this problem... I don't want an extended warranty, paid for that already, not interested in axis body kit, I already have aftermarket wheels and tires, how bout a fat check with let's say 5gs on it... I might be happy after that...

In the time being till I get resolution from SOA, I'm gonna drive the piss outa this vehicle... After all, they didn't build the FRS to baby the thing... Traccontrol off and redline every chance I get.... That's how it should be done
hey bro what dealership did u get it from im from OC i got min from San Juan
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:40 AM   #683
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@eurospeed, I think there are two more things that would be very nice to know in the first post.

#1 How did people broke in the car? Did they follow (or at least mostly) the manual? Or did they ring the engine from day one, or at least lets say went past 4K a lot?

#2 For those who have had the car repaired, what definintely repaired it? Cam sprockets replacement, ECU, cam sensors.. etc.

That #2 might be material for a new thread, but just floating the ideas out there.

Thanks for the informative thread!
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:45 AM   #684
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If possible I would like to differ from both of you on this.

It's pretty clear to me that an engine management system which has to control the timing of spark, valve opening, fuel control over TWO independent injection systems up to 7500 RPM over a range of different operating conditions (both inside and outside the engine) is nearly as complex as you can make it. The only complexity inducing mechanism missing is a forced induction system of some kind (and that's coming).

Our cars have a 4-channel ABS / Traction Control / Stability management system with user controllable threasholds and deactivation. The stability management system actively monitors the car's yaw rate and then intervenes when the driver has exceeded it's allowable limits. There's a brake force distribution system which allows the car to vary brake force per-wheel based inputs from steering angle, brake force applied, and vehicle speed. You have an electrically driven, speed sensitieve, varable effort power steering system with it's motor embedded in the steering column itself so the engine can sit 10mm lower.

The ABS, Steering, Gauge Cluster, Air Bag, Tire Pressure Sensor, Audio System, Transmission, Engine (split up into the ECU and the FCU; Fuel Control Unit) all have independent computers which speak to each other in real time through the car's CAN BUS

Modern day cars are VERY complex but consider that 10 years ago getting all of this integrated into a car meant you were spending $60,000. The FR-S/GT 86/ BRZ are a value at twice the price. For everything they got wrong on this car, they got a lot right (just saying...)


I'm disappointed, Art. This isn't much of a response.

The engine is too complex. You can get the same or better performance, and better reliability, from a simpler design. What's happening with the other components on the car is not relevant to this point.

Toyota has said ad nauseum that they went with a flat-4 design in order to achieve a low center of gravity. Hallelujah, brother! They further said that they expect this platform to be an opportunity for enthusiasts to do their own, perhaps extensive, modifications with aftermarket parts. Good luck adding more junk onto these heads!

"The ABS, Steering, Gauge Cluster, Air Bag, Tire Pressure Sensor, Audio System, Transmission, Engine (split up into the ECU and the FCU; Fuel Control Unit) all have independent computers which speak to each other in real time through the car's CAN BUS." All this $60,000 stuff is standard on my $15,000 Fit.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:53 AM   #685
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If you could find out it would be helpful. I don't know why anyone thinks that moving sensors around would actually fix something. I think it would almost be impossible for one of them to break.

¿Por que?
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:03 PM   #686
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Have had the idle drop issue on my car for some time now, but today was the first time it actually dropped below 5000 rpm, and it stalled out twice on me in a row. car now has 10,500 miles. did not throw a check engine light, and is running fine after starting it back up. it was immediate after filling up my gas tank, and my cap is secure.
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