CV Joint Failure and Differential Failure

[AreteAuto]

Well, I posted a few weeks ago about a clicking noise from my rear axle. Unfortunately I was right about it being the CV joint. The joint snapped when I shifted under hard acceleration and the differential is gone too. I'm guessing the exploding CV joint damaged it maybe? Either way, I'm trying to get the dealer to fix it under warranty, but they're giving me a hard time about my tires "showing signs of abuse." The most trouble they've dealt with is non-competition spirited driving on a closed course in second gear only. Even then, they try to say, "the tires show marks of perhaps dropped clutch or burnouts." Once again, I've never done a burnout or dropped the clutch, and the wear marks clearly show lateral forces, not longitudinal. Oh well, it'll be a debate. I wish this car could hold up to spirited driving, after all it is a 'sports car.' Isn't it implied that it's abilities will be exercised? It's one thing for the car to hold up to it, but another for the company to speak as if it only exists to look like a cool kid with high-waters.

[mav1178]

A dealership is a two-way communication machine between you and the manufacturer. You need to learn how to communicate with a dealer to know what benefits them.

If you have trouble and you indeed have a legitimate claim, go take your business elsewhere, or escalate the issue with corporate. Or both.

-alex

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by AreteAuto

Well, I posted a few weeks ago about a clicking noise from my rear axle. Unfortunately I was right about it being the CV joint. The joint snapped when I shifted under hard acceleration and the differential is gone too. I'm guessing the exploding CV joint damaged it maybe? Either way, I'm trying to get the dealer to fix it under warranty, but they're giving me a hard time about my tires "showing signs of abuse." The most trouble they've dealt with is non-competition spirited driving on a closed course in second gear only. Even then, they try to say, "the tires show marks of perhaps dropped clutch or burnouts." Once again, I've never done a burnout or dropped the clutch, and the wear marks clearly show lateral forces, not longitudinal. Oh well, it'll be a debate. I wish this car could hold up to spirited driving, after all it is a 'sports car.' Isn't it implied that it's abilities will be exercised? It's one thing for the car to hold up to it, but another for the company to speak as if it only exists to look like a cool kid with high-waters.

The car does log events, and milestones, such as the highest RPM, etc.

It's in the dealership's interest to get a warranty claim covered for you, as they DO get paid to do the work. It's really the regional rep, and ultimately corporate, that decides whether you get covered or not.

Do you have an existing relationship with this dealer? A service history goes a long way in a dealer helping you get a warranty claim pushed through, to retain your long term business.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by AreteAuto

Well, I posted a few weeks ago about a clicking noise from my rear axle. Unfortunately I was right about it being the CV joint. The joint snapped when I shifted under hard acceleration and the differential is gone too. I'm guessing the exploding CV joint damaged it maybe? Either way, I'm trying to get the dealer to fix it under warranty, but they're giving me a hard time about my tires "showing signs of abuse." The most trouble they've dealt with is non-competition spirited driving on a closed course in second gear only. Even then, they try to say, "the tires show marks of perhaps dropped clutch or burnouts." Once again, I've never done a burnout or dropped the clutch, and the wear marks clearly show lateral forces, not longitudinal. Oh well, it'll be a debate. I wish this car could hold up to spirited driving, after all it is a 'sports car.' Isn't it implied that it's abilities will be exercised? It's one thing for the car to hold up to it, but another for the company to speak as if it only exists to look like a cool kid with high-waters.

The whole car stock?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by AreteAuto

Well, I posted a few weeks ago about a clicking noise from my rear axle. Unfortunately I was right about it being the CV joint. The joint snapped when I shifted under hard acceleration and the differential is gone too........... .

Well, now, AreteAuto .... that is a bad break (no pun intended) .....

In another thread you started, your car's "ticking/clicking" was diagnosed as a bad C/V joint and the consequences of continuing to drive on it were predicted.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88428

You bill yourself as a "racing enthusiast". Does that mean you race your car or you just follow racing .. ??

When you mention "lightly upgraded", what does that entail .. ??

If and when you take this to “corporate” you may want to be prepared to address these types of questions.

I hope you get er fixed up soon!


humfrz

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, now, AreteAuto .... that is a bad break (no pun intended) .....

In another thread you started, your car's "ticking/clicking" was diagnosed as a bad C/V joint and the consequences of continuing to drive on it were predicted.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88428

You bill yourself as a "racing enthusiast". Does that mean you race your car or you just follow racing .. ??

When you mention "lightly upgraded", what does that entail .. ??

If and when you take this to “corporate” you may want to be prepared to address these types of questions.

I hope you get er fixed up soon!


humfrz

To add to the above:
You also said in your prior thread that "It started yesterday on my drive home from college with lots of baggage loaded in the car."
Any idea what it may have weighed?
Not criticizing I am just a bit concerned because I frequently have a pile of stuff in my car.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by mav1178

A dealership is a two-way communication machine between you and the manufacturer. You need to learn how to communicate with a dealer to know what benefits them.

If you have trouble and you indeed have a legitimate claim, go take your business elsewhere, or escalate the issue with corporate. Or both.

-alex

I would appreciate a primer in dealership communications, I've been accused of poor skills on my part contributing to my lackluster dealership experiences.

In my opinion, if the drivetrain breaks under 60k, hell if the stock axles and joints fail at all ever due to normal stress (not from a lack of lubrication or damage obviously) I will be disappointed. It shouldn't even be a discussion to replace them when under 60k miles.

Of course it's situational, power mods and lowered ride height have been shown to reduce life, no argument. If OP is on a 2" drop with 9" wide slicks and claiming +20 or more hp at the wheels then yeah, gotta pay to play, Toyota doesn't owe you better cv joints and axles, but it does owe you a car that can live up to it's own advertising. This was posted today:

With the rear seats folded down it can fit four full size tires and tool kit for weekend track days.

Said at 2:10, the rest of the video is a bore with it rolling around the track with the exception of a decent drift at 3:30.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yGntMe***M"]2016 Scion FR-S Walkaround [Exterior & Interior] (Scion) - YouTube[/ame]

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I would appreciate a primer in dealership communications, I've been accused of poor skills on my part contributing to my lackluster dealership experiences.

Much like conflict negotiation or even a job interview, you have to take a stance that gets the maximum benefit for all parties involved, and often times you have to show the dealer how a warranty claim would be perfectly fine even on a modified car.

Like CV joint failure... if someone says "your car can't be lowered", proof that your lowering is the same as the Series.Blue or RS 1.0 edition cars would strengthen your case.

Or just look at it from the service department's perspective: they will get paid on a claim that is legit, and you are not cheating the system.

There's many ways to go about this but in the end, it's all about relationship and not proclaiming the dealership as an evil entity to start. Every time I see a person with a "stealership" comment, I just want to flag those people as idiots not worthy of any warranty coverage as they automatically portray the dealership as the villain to start.

Two way street, that's how you look at it.

-alex

[AreteAuto]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Do you have an existing relationship with this dealer? A service history goes a long way in a dealer helping you get a warranty claim pushed through, to retain your long term business.

Yes indeed I do. My uncle, my grandfather, and I all have Toyota's from the same dealer. I also am friends with the manager of the sales department. So far it's looking like my case might pull through.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The whole car stock?

Not quite.
Water pump and crank pulleys, axleback exhaust, wheels and tires, front roll center kit, and a 1" drop. Which, I believe is the drop that TRD offers, right?

Originally Posted by humfrz

In another thread you started, your car's "ticking/clicking" was diagnosed as a bad C/V joint and the consequences of continuing to drive on it were predicted.

You bill yourself as a "racing enthusiast". Does that mean you race your car or you just follow racing .. ??

When you mention "lightly upgraded", what does that entail .. ??

If and when you take this to “corporate” you may want to be prepared to address these types of questions.

humfrz

Yesss, unfortunately the diagnosis was right, but hey at least y'all are good at it! I'm just baffled the diff went with it, but I've heard people say it is weak.

I do not race the FR-S, I only compete in a Lotus Elise S. The FR-S is my DD and just a fun car for non-competitive events.

I listed upgrades above in this reply^

I'm doing all the preparation I can!

Originally Posted by Tcoat

To add to the above:
You also said in your prior thread that "It started yesterday on my drive home from college with lots of baggage loaded in the car."
Any idea what it may have weighed?
Not criticizing I am just a bit concerned because I frequently have a pile of stuff in my car.

I can't imagine it weighed more than the weight capacity, or more than having 3 passengers crammed into the car... but there was a noticeable change in ride height... The sound was present with 2 passengers last week too.

Originally Posted by mav1178

Much like conflict negotiation or even a job interview, you have to take a stance that gets the maximum benefit for all parties involved, and often times you have to show the dealer how a warranty claim would be perfectly fine even on a modified car.

Like CV joint failure... if someone says "your car can't be lowered", proof that your lowering is the same as the Series.Blue or RS 1.0 edition cars would strengthen your case.

Or just look at it from the service department's perspective: they will get paid on a claim that is legit, and you are not cheating the system.

-alex

This is a good point. I believe my car is not any lower than those, and I have proof that lowered cars with the same failure have been fixed under warranty. Also getting the problem on the records with corporate may contribute to a recall in the future that will keep the dealership from ever having to deal with this issue again. I don't know how solid that last point is, but I'm brainstorming haha. As for the exclusions, all I could find is "the car must not be raced." Thankfully, I haven't competed in this car yet, so I slipped that tackle.

[AreteAuto]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Said at 2:10, the rest of the video is a bore with it rolling around the track with the exception of a decent drift at 3:30.

2016 Scion FR-S Walkaround [Exterior & Interior] (Scion) - YouTube

YEEESSSS, that is quite a hook they just marketed. They marketed the compatibility for track days. Evidence, evidence... Much thanks.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by AreteAuto

Yes indeed I do. My uncle, my grandfather, and I all have Toyota's from the same dealer. I also am friends with the manager of the sales department. So far it's looking like my case might pull through.

This will be key.

Good luck!

[stevesnj]

Here's the items not covered under warranty;

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting directly or indirectly from any of the following:
> Fire, accidents or theft
> Abuse or negligence
> Misuse — for example, racing or
overloading
> Improper repairs
> Alteration or tampering, including
installation of non-Scion Authorized Accessories
> Lack of or improper maintenance, including use of fluids other than those specified in the Owner’s Manual
> Installation of non-Scion Authorized Parts
> Airborne chemicals, tree sap, road debris (including stone chips), rail dust, salt, hail, floods, wind storms, lightning and other environmental conditions
> Water contamination
This warranty also does not cover the
following:
Tires
Tires are covered by a separate warranty provided by the tire manufacturer. See page 28.
Normal Wear and Tear
Noise, vibration, cosmetic conditions and other deterioration caused by normal wear and tear.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by AreteAuto

Yes indeed I do. My uncle, my grandfather, and I all have Toyota's from the same dealer. I also am friends with the manager of the sales department. So far it's looking like my case might pull through.

This is the most important part.
Secondary concerns are whether your car has had prior warranty or service work performed, where the VIN may be flagged as "modified"... in which case, corporate will take a closer look at questionable warranty claims.

My axle started clicking a few weeks ago. My local dealership (name withheld) warrantied my axle without asking questions. Been only going to a single dealer and every legit claim they get paid, and I'm not going to bother them with borderline warranty stuff.

-alex

[AreteAuto]

So today I put my best foot forward, but they denied warranty. I was mentally prepared to hear it, so I'll just deal with it and move on. Now I suppose the best I can do is research preventative measures so the car will hold up. Probably diff risers, and eventually a Tomei 1.5 way LSD. Then whatever else I can find to reduce axle movement. Now that warranty is gone, I'm all in.