My theory on why people think the GT86 is slow

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Nah it's slow. Even if you downshift into third, you just look funny making a lot of noise and slowly crawling past normal traffic on the highway doing 120 km/h. If Toyota didn't agree, they wouldn't have increased torque and made it come on sooner in the rpm range in the '22 cars.

[86TOYO2k17]

It can be a phenomenal drivers car, serve a purpose, be enjoyable to drive, be a great track car etc... and still simultaneously be slow. Regardless of down shifting to any gear, the car is slow.

Slow isn't necessarily an insult, its just a factual statement. Can It get you to a speed you can get in some serious trouble sure, given enough time to get up to that speed. However most cars on the road can too, only those cars will do it just as fast if not faster. When you have a ton of minivans and Eco boxes on the road that are just as fast if not faster, its slow.

[Spuds]

Or "normal" cars have just gotten fast...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by brandonblt2

The car is actually slow tho. Camrys and Accords are faster. Stock powerband and torque dip make it feel even slower. I love my brz but let's not pretend in stock form it's not slow or that people don't know how to downshift.

Both the standard Camry and Accord (of the same age range as the first gen Twins) have a 0 to 60 of 8.5 seconds so well above the Twins. Yes, both have very limited numbers of higher performing cars that do it in about 6.5 which is pretty much Twin rate but they are about 5% of the production numbers so really don't count.

The definition of "slow" that get's thrown around astounds me sometimes. The bulk of the vehicles on the road have a 0 to 60 range of between 8 and 11 seconds but since the Twins don't have a 4 second time they are "slow". Yes there are much faster cars but the reality is that looking at averages the Twins fall firmly in the lower end of the fast cars not the slow category.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Nah it's slow. Even if you downshift into third, you just look funny making a lot of noise and slowly crawling past normal traffic on the highway doing 120 km/h. If Toyota didn't agree, they wouldn't have increased torque and made it come on sooner in the rpm range in the '22 cars.

Of course they upgraded the power. The first gen design is about 15 years old by now. In 15 years from now (if there are still ICE cars) then people will be saying the same thing about the second gen. Still doesn't make it "slow".

Originally Posted by Spuds

Or "normal" cars have just gotten fast...

The bulk haven't. It is just that car guys tend to take the highest spec cars and use them as the examples.
If you listen to most the Mustang Shelby GT500 is the common production model instead of about 1% of the ones on the road.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Or "normal" cars have just gotten fast...

That standard of fast has slowly increased as the average normal car manufactured gets faster and faster, and the average sports car is faster and faster.

But instead of looking at the average speed of any vehicle on the road today.

Look at the average speed of an enthusiasts vehicle today.
Its got the same acceleration rate of the average entry level sports car from 15-20years ago. 2002 Mustang, RX-8, S2000, 2002 Miata etc…

0-60 in 6.5 And 1/4 in 14.5… that’s slow by any standard. People shouldn’t buy this platform because they want a fast rate of acceleration.
That isn’t the purpose for this platform. It has a lot of areas it excels in acceleration isn’t one though.

[jeffchap]

The twins are faster 0-60 than a Ferrari 308 was back when I was in high school, which was one of the most coveted cars around.

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[spike021]

Yesterday I revved to 6k rpm for the first time and it sounded like my engine was dying. I'll never do it again, I don't want to wreck the engine on this BRZ since my mom and dad paid for it for me. It's so slow though, I'll probably trade it in for a Honda Civic soon. I hear the SI turbo is fast!! \s

[spike021]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

Nah it's slow. Even if you downshift into third, you just look funny making a lot of noise and slowly crawling past normal traffic on the highway doing 120 km/h. If Toyota didn't agree, they wouldn't have increased torque and made it come on sooner in the rpm range in the '22 cars.

I have never looked funny/made a lot of noise/slowly crawled when downshifting to 5th/4th/3rd/whatever as needed to pass people. Especially slow-ass minivans and all of the SUV's or camry's people insist on buying these days. In fact it's almost too easy.

[CincyJohn]

People think it is slow because it is. And it doesn't matter how good you are at keeping the revs high and downshifting to exactly the right gear, you still have to get above 4.5k every time you come to a stop. And if you are in stock form, that means you have to get through the torque dip again - which, to me, felt like hitting a wall.

I did think it was reasonably quick and more than livable with catless headers and an OFT e85 tune. But if I hadn't known I was going to do that, not sure I would have bought my Gen 1 - I really thought the torque dip was that bad.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by jeffchap

The twins are faster 0-60 than a Ferrari 308 was back when I was in high school, which was one of the most coveted cars around.

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a 1983 308 gts is basically exactly as fast as a 2013 brz.

but by that standard

A nice big screen TV in 1983 was about 25" and only like 240p.
by comparison do you think a 30" 480p TV is nice/big today because its better than a 30+ year old tv?
Probably not, when basically everyone has at least a 50" 4k TV now days.

As technologies advances so does the standards in which we measure them.

[new2subaru]

It's fast in the corners and that's all I care about. I wouldn't say no to a power bump though.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

People think it is slow because it is. And it doesn't matter how good you are at keeping the revs high and downshifting to exactly the right gear, you still have to get above 4.5k every time you come to a stop. And if you are in stock form, that means you have to get through the torque dip again - which, to me, felt like hitting a wall.

I did think it was reasonably quick and more than livable with catless headers and an OFT e85 tune. But if I hadn't known I was going to do that, not sure I would have bought my Gen 1 - I really thought the torque dip was that bad.

I usually shift between 3-4k....

Thinking back...i guess i actually piss off every driver around me for how slow i drive...Maybe i should drive faster to surpass the traffic instead of keeping up with them.

[brandonblt2]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Both the standard Camry and Accord (of the same age range as the first gen Twins) have a 0 to 60 of 8.5 seconds so well above the Twins. Yes, both have very limited numbers of higher performing cars that do it in about 6.5 which is pretty much Twin rate but they are about 5% of the production numbers so really don't count.

The definition of "slow" that get's thrown around astounds me sometimes. The bulk of the vehicles on the road have a 0 to 60 range of between 8 and 11 seconds but since the Twins don't have a 4 second time they are "slow". Yes there are much faster cars but the reality is that looking at averages the Twins fall firmly in the lower end of the fast cars not the slow category.

When I look at 0 to 60 times from Car and Driver for a 2016 accord it's 5.6 sec for the V6 and 7.0 sec for the 4 cylinder. Base Camry's are a bit slower at around 8 seconds with the V6 at 5.8 sec. Our cars have a 0 to 60 of 7.1 seconds with a stick if you dump the clutch you can get 6.3 seconds and around 8 sec with an auto. In real world testing an accord is probably beating us most of the time. If you have an auto you will match a base Camry.



And sure everyone will define fast and slow differently but when comparing the twins to other sports cars that people cross shop with the twins are slower than most.



Ecoboost Mustang - 5 seconds
V6 Camaro - 5.3 seconds
WRX - 5.3 seconds
Civic Type R - 5.4 seconds
Golf GTI - 5.9 seconds
Miata - 5.8 seconds
Ford Focus RS - 4 seconds
Honda Civic Si - 6.8 seconds


Using the best case 0 to 60 time the twins only beat the Honda Si. It's at the bottom of the list so it's slower than most sports cars that it is cross shopped with which is ok since that is not what the car was meant for. What it lacks in acceleration it makes up for in handling.