follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


View Poll Results: Would you buy a GR86 Cup without drivetrain?
Hell yeah if price is $30-40K USD 4 36.36%
Nope. Build a car myself!!! 6 54.55%
Hell yeah even if it is $50k 1 9.09%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-23-2022, 07:11 PM   #1
Swift
I just Drive.
 
Swift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: in the womb still
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 299
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 86 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Arrow Gr86 Cup, but with a caveat

So sure most in this sub forum have heard the announcement. I have not raced even remotely professionally, but have wanted to all my life. I now live within driving distance of two good tracks. As we all know a real racing series can get expensive, more so than it already can be do a random event a couple times a year.


My request is that they build the car at same facility with roll cage and everything...just no drivetrain. I am sure most here would know why. I see it as 1) It is still a "toyota" if I put some other motor in it and race it in Gridlife or whatnot 2) I could put in a full aluminum Supra 3.0L for some real fun and keep it toyota

At any rate it would make them money and create brand recognition either way. Anyone racing at any level knows that the new HPDE Honda civic announcement is awesome value. I am a Honda guy! The amount of money to find a beater and fix up would literally equal buying that car. However, I can't afford a Lotus Emira and this GR86 is the closest one can get to perfection in my eyes. Even better than the new Supra(f*ck electric steering.)


So take the poll and let them know!
__________________
-Waiting patiently for the right FT-86...

-92' Acura Legend 5spd coupe twin turbo project
Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 09:29 AM   #2
Desertnate
Spelling Impaired
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Drives: 2022 BRZ Limited WR Blue
Location: St. Louis metro area
Posts: 350
Thanks: 242
Thanked 141 Times in 96 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I think it would take huge demand for them to do this. They are building the car especially for a one-make race series.

For it to be profitable for them to sell what would essentially be nothing but a body-in-white, I think you'd need a significant number of customers lining up to buy them. While there are enthusiasts like you looking for one, I'm not sure how large of a demand there would be if there wasn't a direct linkage to a race series somewhere which wouldn't have the homologation rules which lock in a powertrain.
Desertnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 03:02 PM   #3
Swift
I just Drive.
 
Swift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: in the womb still
Location: WI/MN
Posts: 299
Thanks: 0
Thanked 116 Times in 86 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I firmly believe if they announced a body in white for a fair price it would literally have more customers.



The engineers have how many hours logged, the newest software and testing methods and would love to have the suspension, brakes, and other chassis bits built by them(plus cage etc). Plus input from their racing teams.


Most here quite frankly couldn't build a comparable vehicle for years and alot of wasted dollars. Just my two cents.
Swift is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Swift For This Useful Post:
Kelse92 (06-25-2022)
Old 06-25-2022, 12:56 PM   #4
raisingAnarchy
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Drives: '20 Tundra, '84 SpecE30
Location: OH
Posts: 38
Thanks: 37
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Doesn't building a car with no drivetrain defeat the point of the series? My understanding is these one make Cup races are designed with having documentation about the source of the powertrain; sealed trans or engine units to ensure fairness.


Or are you wanting the cup car shell so you can put your own drivetrain choice in and race in a different series?
raisingAnarchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2022, 02:16 PM   #5
RT-BRZ
FNG
 
RT-BRZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 231
Thanks: 290
Thanked 146 Times in 86 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post
....2) I could put in a full aluminum Supra 3.0L for some real fun and keep it toyota.....
Just wanted to comment that the current Supra engine isn't built by Toyota either.
RT-BRZ is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RT-BRZ For This Useful Post:
Jdmjunkie (06-25-2022)
Old 06-26-2022, 07:53 PM   #6
CSG Mike
 
CSG Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: S2000 CR
Location: Orange County
Posts: 14,522
Thanks: 8,911
Thanked 14,166 Times in 6,828 Posts
Mentioned: 966 Post(s)
Tagged: 14 Thread(s)
@Swift you might want to do a bit more research.
CSG Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CSG Mike For This Useful Post:
villainous_frx (06-27-2022)
Old 06-27-2022, 12:28 AM   #7
villainous_frx
Off to the track!
 
villainous_frx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Drives: '14 Lava 86, '13 WRB BRZ
Location: Canada
Posts: 686
Thanks: 1,434
Thanked 1,134 Times in 457 Posts
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT-BRZ View Post
Just wanted to comment that the current Supra engine isn't built by Toyota either.
And that these cars all have EPS from factory... lol.
__________________
villainous_frx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 05:01 PM   #8
Go Time Racing
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Drives: 2022 BRZ
Location: Gods Country
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Not Grassroots Racing

In case anyone missed the updated information, the GR86 Cup car will cost $125,000 per car, with entry fees costing $32,000 for the 7 week-end series.

Entry level... Grassroots Racing... what a joke. Shame on you Toyota. Should be fun to watch a bunch of trust fund babies who have no racing skills run around. It's a swing and a miss.

2023 GR Cup Series.pdf
Go Time Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Go Time Racing For This Useful Post:
timurrrr (07-01-2022)
Old 06-30-2022, 06:36 PM   #9
RedReplicant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: None
Location: Arizona
Posts: 897
Thanks: 1,446
Thanked 1,195 Times in 509 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Time Racing View Post
In case anyone missed the updated information, the GR86 Cup car will cost $125,000 per car, with entry fees costing $32,000 for the 7 week-end series.

Entry level... Grassroots Racing... what a joke. Shame on you Toyota. Should be fun to watch a bunch of trust fund babies who have no racing skills run around. It's a swing and a miss.

Attachment 213135
I mean, the numbers lined up exactly as expected based on competing series.
__________________
RedReplicant is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedReplicant For This Useful Post:
villainous_frx (06-30-2022)
Old 06-30-2022, 07:10 PM   #10
Ohio Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 880
Thanks: 1,352
Thanked 750 Times in 422 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedReplicant View Post
I mean, the numbers lined up exactly as expected based on competing series.
Is it though? A Civic SI race car costs $55,000, Civic Type-R $90,000, Miata $59,000 (although I'm not sure if this is an up-to-date price).
Maybe the GR86 Cup car offers substantially more than the other examples. Maybe the other race series cost more, making it a wash for a season's racing, I don't know. $125,000 + $32,000 certainly seems steep for for a $30,000 MSRP'd car.
Ohio Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 07:15 PM   #11
RedReplicant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: None
Location: Arizona
Posts: 897
Thanks: 1,446
Thanked 1,195 Times in 509 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast View Post
Is it though? A Civic SI race car costs $55,000, Civic Type-R $90,000, Miata $59,000 (although I'm not sure if this is an up-to-date price).
Maybe the GR86 Cup car offers substantially more than the other examples. Maybe the other race series cost more, making it a wash for a season's racing, I don't know. $125,000 + $32,000 certainly seems steep for for a $30,000 MSRP'd car.
The up to date price on the Miata is over $80k USD in Global MX5 Cup spec.

I wrote out a response earlier in this thread that laid out where the cost comes from, but ended up not bothering so I will summarize what I said.

Basically, Honda gets away with the TCA Civic because it is an extremely mass produced chassis/motor combination that it is relatively simple as far as race cars go and was developed in house by HPD.

The Global MX5 Cup and the 86Cup are more expensive because they are not built on a super high production chassis, are outsourcing the builds to small race car companies, and have more goodies like a sequential transmission.

The 86 doesn't have a long history of spec racing behind it like the Miata (money), adds more frills like a Bosch Motorsports ABS unit, Bosch ECU, etc.



Quite frankly, if Toyota cared about grassroots enthusiasts they'd have the equivalent of what Mazda has with Mazda Motorsports contingency and part pricing. Honda does some nice perks with HPD, but not to the level that Mazda does.
__________________
RedReplicant is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RedReplicant For This Useful Post:
Ohio Enthusiast (06-30-2022)
Old 07-05-2022, 09:03 AM   #12
series.trackday
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Drives: '17 Subaru BRZ series.Yellow
Location: MD
Posts: 62
Thanks: 6
Thanked 58 Times in 32 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedReplicant View Post
...The Global MX5 Cup and the 86Cup are more expensive because they are not built on a super high production chassis, are outsourcing the builds to small race car companies, and have more goodies like a sequential transmission..

The former Long Road Racing built the factory race cars for the Global MX5 cup. I had my Spec Miata's rollcage, dropped floorpan, and custom seat mount done there before they closed. https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more...alls-it-a-day/ I have a bunch of photos of the cars and facility I've never posted anywhere, but my point is this:

During the over-a-month-long-process, when my customer rep would text or email me weekly updates and have phone conversations with me about the state of the work, or on my visits to the facility, I got to see the quality of their work. It was beyond literally any other work I've ever seen done, some by high-end race shops or custom vehicle manufacturers. And the base Global cup car cost $60K. Spec-rules-compliant options could drive that up to over $90K. LRR provided factory support to individuals as well - I didn't ask the cost, but it HAD to be over $20K/yr given what their support entailed. Most of the racers/teams also sent their cars back to LRR to have damage repaired, beyond any trackside fix that was implemented to keep the driver in the race, at exorbitant cost.

These "factory" spec series are not cheap. Hell, non-factory Spec series like Spec Miata, are not cheap. I bought a not-entirely-roadworthy neglected Miata and got it BARELY legal to get on the track in the series and the cost was about $18K, with all labor outside of the rollcage and floorpan done by me. It would have cost me another 15-20K to "get competitive", and unknown tens of thousands per season to keep in the running.

Factory series are not cheap. Spec series are not cheap. Time Trials is not cheap. 24Hr of Lemons is not cheap. Grassroots motorsports, is not cheap. Racing, is not cheap.

It's an expensive hobby, it's always going to be expensive, and you're never going to earn money doing it as a racer.

EDIT: Christ, forgot my closing statement.
If you contacted the facility that's making the race cars, they might do what you want - all the chassis work, no engine. It'd still probably be in the $50K+ range. LRR would have done it - sourced a chassis, built it, etc., they were just a high-end race shop that did other work, too. Given that it's a "TRD" facility, maybe not; the only way you could know is by calling them and asking. I highly doubt they'd do it on semi-production basis; the customer base for high-end custom race chassis isn't large.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by series.trackday; 07-05-2022 at 01:03 PM.
series.trackday is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to series.trackday For This Useful Post:
bcj (07-05-2022), CSG Mike (07-05-2022), Matt93SE (07-07-2022), Racecomp Engineering (07-05-2022), RedReplicant (07-05-2022)
Old 07-05-2022, 11:15 PM   #13
mav1178
Senior Member
 
mav1178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: 2005 Toyota Camry
Location: 91745
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 493
Thanked 6,092 Times in 3,029 Posts
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedReplicant View Post
Quite frankly, if Toyota cared about grassroots enthusiasts they'd have the equivalent of what Mazda has with Mazda Motorsports contingency and part pricing.
I'm a few days late but this point is easily addressed:

look at Toyota's own press release.

then look at the fact that it is still a GR branded car/series but built at TRD.

the two are not the same.

this platform has no global potential for a one-make car when the company's own internal politics (TRD vs Gazoo Racing vs TRD Japan vs TGR Europe) and structure prevents a single car used worldwide.
mav1178 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2022, 11:27 AM   #14
RedReplicant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Drives: None
Location: Arizona
Posts: 897
Thanks: 1,446
Thanked 1,195 Times in 509 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
I'm a few days late but this point is easily addressed:

look at Toyota's own press release.

then look at the fact that it is still a GR branded car/series but built at TRD.

the two are not the same.

this platform has no global potential for a one-make car when the company's own internal politics (TRD vs Gazoo Racing vs TRD Japan vs TGR Europe) and structure prevents a single car used worldwide.
I understand that, it was a separate point from anything I'd said above and not related to the GR Cup.
__________________

Last edited by RedReplicant; 07-06-2022 at 12:24 PM.
RedReplicant is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why BRZ Over GR86? Lelandjt BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics 45 12-26-2021 08:41 AM
GR86/BRZ Aerodynamics Jianlun GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 4 12-15-2021 10:39 AM
GR86 PCD teppey GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 23 07-29-2021 11:12 PM
GR86 In R7 of the Toyota Gazoo Racing GT Cup + GR86 coming to Grand Turismo Sport Blighty GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 37 07-18-2021 03:38 PM
FA20Club ripped me off - Caveat Emptor Canivideo User/Vendor/Sponsor Reviews, Feedback, Comments 36 10-10-2014 11:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.