SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Cueman]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

How in the world are you guys getting this much camber?? Does the whole loosen everything with a bushing and leave it tensed up with a jack overnight, then tighten it down actually do that much??

-1.8 seems a bit beyond the norm, but I think you should be able to find a degree and a half with a jack and some ratchet straps.

[Twinz]

I only got to -1.5 on my setup. I think the RE71's wear a lot faster with heat. I just did the first of two events to scuff in a brand new set for Bristol and I am going to flip them on the wheels before the second event. (Sw FL summer heat)

Don't get me wrong, they will probably be great for the next event just as they are now, but the next event for me is not Bristol, it's another local.

I'm running 31f and 28r and had to spray after each run.

I was going to sell the pair of brand new Rival 1.5's I have sitting in the garage, but I may buy another pair for the rest of the summer (they seem to like heat) and plan on a single event to scuff in a new set of RE71's before Nationals.

[JermMX5]

Originally Posted by Cueman

-1.8 seems a bit beyond the norm, but I think you should be able to find a degree and a half with a jack and some ratchet straps.

So what does this mean exactly? Is there a guide anywhere on what I'm trying to stretch out?

[Biggins]

I sprayed at least the front on RE71Rs after each run when the weather is hot. I did not seen many people spraying the BFG 1.5s or the new Hankook RS4s (quite fast tire) at our 90* event on Sunday.

There is never enough water to cool down my V720s on a very hot day, but they still give competitive times if I can get them cool enough.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

So what does this mean exactly? Is there a guide anywhere on what I'm trying to stretch out?

It's not a stretching things out thing. None of the joints you're moving around in have any bushings. It's a keep-things-in-the-right-spot-while-I-use-both-hands-to-tighten-this-down thing. You're taking advantage of slop in bolt holes, not changing the shape of hard parts.

If you're on Koni's, it's crash bolt with centering washer in the top hole, loosen both top and bottom up, move things so that the top arm is as far inboard as possible, tug outward at the bottom for any slop that might be there, find out how to hold it there (a second set of hands is useful), and then tighten back down. 1.7-1.8 is about what you get out of that. If it's factory struts, remove the reference to the centering washer.

If you want to chase the miniscule rest, pop the hood, loosen the three nuts up top, move those inboard and re-tighten.

[simpleisbest]

Mechanically speaking, if the Koni full replacements are getting actual -1.7 or more then they are still probably not legal. Technically the spacer should be used in the upper front hole. That is supposed to be the smaller of two and that is what the spacer was supposed to correct. If the internal diameter of the spacer is larger than OEM (w/crash bolt) or the location of the spacer's hole (due to fitment slop or misalignment), then you could protest it as illegal. I would guestimate that to get anywhere -1.7 or -1.9ish on the car, you would need to get about 0.5mm more than OEM. The most I was able to get on my last 2 sets of Street legal struts was about -1.3 to -1.4 depending on the alignment rack at 0 front toe.

These cars do not gain front camber from right height, so any gains are though geometry, ie mounting hole locations or size.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Mechanically speaking, if the Koni full replacements are getting actual -1.7 or more then they are still probably not legal. Technically the spacer should be used in the upper front hole. That is supposed to be the smaller of two and that is what the spacer was supposed to correct. If the internal diameter of the spacer is larger than OEM (w/crash bolt) or the location of the spacer's hole (due to fitment slop or misalignment), then you could protest it as illegal. I would guestimate that to get anywhere -1.7 or -1.9ish on the car, you would need to get about 0.5mm more than OEM. The most I was able to get on my last 2 sets of Street legal struts was about -1.3 to -1.4 depending on the alignment rack at 0 front toe.

These cars do not gain front camber from right height, so any gains are though geometry, ie mounting hole locations or size.

As much as I hate to say it, because it'd mean spending more money and time on the suspension again, I'm wondering if variance in drilling out the upper strut mount to accommodate the larger shaft size of the Konis is what's causing these variances in extra camber. I imagine a lot of people, like myself, are going this in a garage without the most precise measurements, and often late at night frustrated/tired.

I know when installing my Konis we did our best to only drill the hole out enough to work, but didn't having use the most precise tools/methods available since it was a job done in my buddy's garage. I could see where slight differences in how the upper strut mounts were drilled out could account for added camber.

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

As much as I hate to say it, because it'd mean spending more money and time on the suspension again, I'm wondering if variance in drilling out the upper strut mount to accommodate the larger shaft size of the Konis is what's causing these variances in extra camber. I imagine a lot of people, like myself, are going this in a garage without the most precise measurements, and often late at night frustrated/tired.

I know when installing my Konis we did our best to only drill the hole out enough to work, but didn't having use the most precise tools/methods available since it was a job done in my buddy's garage. I could see where slight differences in how the upper strut mounts were drilled out could account for added camber.

Drilling of the top hats is only done in the rear.
The fronts use a bearing, so no drilling possible.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Drilling of the top hats is only done in the rear.
The fronts use a bearing, so no drilling possible.

That's right, disregard my previous statement. Running on very little sleep, so not operating at 100%. haha

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Mechanically speaking, if the Koni full replacements are getting actual -1.7 or more then they are still probably not legal. Technically the spacer should be used in the upper front hole. That is supposed to be the smaller of two and that is what the spacer was supposed to correct. If the internal diameter of the spacer is larger than OEM (w/crash bolt) or the location of the spacer's hole (due to fitment slop or misalignment), then you could protest it as illegal. I would guestimate that to get anywhere -1.7 or -1.9ish on the car, you would need to get about 0.5mm more than OEM. The most I was able to get on my last 2 sets of Street legal struts was about -1.3 to -1.4 depending on the alignment rack at 0 front toe.

These cars do not gain front camber from right height, so any gains are though geometry, ie mounting hole locations or size.

Best of luck trying to protest with that logic

[JermMX5]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Best of luck trying to protest with that logic

I mean the rule is pretty clear...

"Suspension geometry and alignment capability, not including ride height, may not be altered by the substitution of alternate shock absorbers."

The konis are changing the alignment capability are they not?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

I mean the rule is pretty clear...

"Suspension geometry and alignment capability, not including ride height, may not be altered by the substitution of alternate shock absorbers."

The konis are changing the alignment capability are they not?

It was proven that they were with just the standard full replacement. The washer insert was supposedly a fix to bring them into OEM spec. So if people are questioning it, then someone will have to take the measurements and prove it, like what was originally done with the full replacements.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

I mean the rule is pretty clear...



"Suspension geometry and alignment capability, not including ride height, may not be altered by the substitution of alternate shock absorbers."



The konis are changing the alignment capability are they not?

Degassed shocks can lower the car and thus gain camber from lowering.

It's a McPherson front. Of course you're going to gain camber on any height change.


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[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Degassed shocks can lower the car and thus gain camber from lowering.

It's a McPherson front. Of course you're going to gain camber on any height change.


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smh lol