Another crash bolts alignment thread

[jeebus]

Installed the OEM crash bolts last week for autox. Loved the added camber so I got aligned today. My toe really wasn't that bad after the crash bolts, it was within spec. But I adjusted everything anyway.

Here's where I ended up:

Front camber: -1 left, -1 right
Caster: 5.5 left, 5.5 right
Toe: 1/32" out left, 1/32" out right

Rear camber: -1.4 left, -1.6 right
Rear toe: 1/8" in left, 1/8" in right

EDIT: UPDATE 9/19...realized rear toe was too aggressive. Had it changed to between 1/16" and 1/32" in, per side.

[JoeBoxer]

Looks good thats about where i want to be maybe a touch more negative up front. What are you lowered on?

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer

Looks good thats about where i want to be maybe a touch more negative up front. What are you lowered on?

stock suspension.

[JoeBoxer]

How did much negative camber in the rear did you have stock?

[xwd]

It's not adjustable so that is what he had stock, unless he loosened parts up tried to move things around but that's kind of a PITA.

[ft86Fan]

OP, just curious whether it would be better to keep front toe at zero (instead of toe out) and lessen the rear toe in instead? Also, were you not able to get more front camber with the crash bolts?

[JoeBoxer]

Originally Posted by dwx

It's not adjustable so that is what he had stock, unless he loosened parts up tried to move things around but that's kind of a PITA.

Yeah that is why i asked i didn't know we had -1.5 in the rear already.

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by dwx

It's not adjustable so that is what he had stock, unless he loosened parts up tried to move things around but that's kind of a PITA.

Correct. I didn't alter the stock rear camber at all.

Originally Posted by ft86Fan

OP, just curious whether it would be better to keep front toe at zero (instead of toe out) and lessen the rear toe in instead? Also, were you not able to get more front camber with the crash bolts?

Well, there's a lot of possible routes one could go. I considered zero toe up front. But I like a pinch of toe out for that initial turn in response. 1/32" is very little (.03"), so I'm not overly concerned that it will make the car darty or wear the tires too fast. As for the rear...1/8" in (.125) is within spec, and I like the straight line stability it gives. I had absolutely NO trouble hanging the tail out at my last AutoX, so I'm not worried about it.

Originally, I wasn't planning on changing the rear toe at all because the crash bolts wouldn't affect the back. But after getting it on the rack, it was apparent that the factory alignment was pretty sloppy, so I figured I'd get it perfect.

And no, I was not able to get more that -1 camber with the crash bolts. It seems some people have managed to eek out a little bit more, but I'm fine with it.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by jeebus

Correct. I didn't alter the stock rear camber at all.



Well, there's a lot of possible routes one could go. I considered zero toe up front. But I like a pinch of toe out for that initial turn in response. 1/32" is very little (.03"), so I'm not overly concerned that it will make the car darty or wear the tires too fast. As for the rear...1/8" in (.125) is within spec, and I like the straight line stability it gives. I had absolutely NO trouble hanging the tail out at my last AutoX, so I'm not worried about it.

Originally, I wasn't planning on changing the rear toe at all because the crash bolts wouldn't affect the back. But after getting it on the rack, it was apparent that the factory alignment was pretty sloppy, so I figured I'd get it perfect.

And no, I was not able to get more that -1 camber with the crash bolts. It seems some people have managed to eek out a little bit more, but I'm fine with it.

I'm running a lot more toe out up front and it feels good. I do have camber plates so I'm able to pull that toe back to zero when not racing. So the nice benefit with camber plates is that as you push for maximum negative camber for racing you can set your toe out to where you like and then as you pull back closer to an aggressive street alignment you can zero out your toe.

I was shocked at how much toe in the rear had OEM. So far though I have not been compelled to take any out based on how the car feels on the race track. I would think rear tire wear will be really bad for anyone going with a staggered fitment as they won't be able to rotate the tires.

[ZDan]

IMO that's way too much rear toe. In my experience with the S2000, more toe is good for nothing, and bad for everything (handling linearity, responsiveness, tire wear, fuel economy). I never found big rear toe to give increased stability over *reasonable* rear toe (~0.2 - 0.3 degrees total), and at the high/excessive end, it can DEcrease stability over bumps/undulations and in traction-challenged conditions.

You have 1/4" total rear toe or 0.57 degrees total. On the AP1, this is enough to give spooky/nonlinear handling behavior, impair turn-in response, and cut tire life literally in HALF.

The conventional wisdom is that big rear toe is more "stable", but in my experience it can be a lot less linear and confidence-inspiring, again, particularly over bumps/undulations and differential traction conditions between the rear tires (frequently happens in rain).
And of course it kills tires.

Waste of rear tire traction and life to have them continually scrubbing against each other at all times!

[ABQautoxer]

I would dial out some of that rear toe, especially with that little camber in the front. Only time I ran that much rear toe-in was for the Z06 so I could put down power earlier in a turn. Also, I wonder why you couldn't more negative camber, that's by far the lowest I have seen with crash bolts.

[gmookher]

is the 'OE crash bolt' basically another lower bolt you just put thru the top hole? its not lobed like the whiteline right>?

[xwd]

It is. It's identical to the lower bolt, you just push as hard as you can and tighten things down.

[ABQautoxer]

I didn't push hard, I simple pulled out on the bottom of the rotor and in at the top and tightened it down and got -1.6 on both sides.