Racer X Intake manifold design, development, and results

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

I wouldn't mind one! The price is nothing crazy. I wonder if I can take it somewhere to apply a red finish like on the 17+ manifold, or even some gold tape for insulation

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Jeff@Racer X Fab

I have a feeling that actual tuning for the manifold could fix this.

That's where the previous posts lost me. You're attempting to sell something that will drastically change the air flow rate yet you're not using a tune made for the product and you didn't even post air fuel ratios for the tiny bit of testing you did do.

Originally Posted by Jeff@Racer X Fab

Where to start… Well, when the project started we believed that the OEM intake manifold had a little more power in it. We started off with our first prototype manifold with what we thought would yield results. It did not, all of our testing has been completed in this thread. From there we built another 6 manifolds all of which have the dyno results again posted in this thread. Manifold #7 finally gave us the results we thought were possible between 5-10 percent total gain.



Once we found that manifold #7 produce positive results, we then purchased a full exhaust system to see the difference. We only picked up a few HP adding the exhaust system. We then used E85 and only picked up a few more HP. The best gains which are widely known on the forum are from adding a tune. This is still the case.



What happened to beta testing? We decided to cut our losses, it's that simple. We received around 75 emails with interest in beta testing the manifold, however in our previous experience only about 1 in 5 will actually follow through. We have about $10k in this project and we don't plan to do much more with it. Usually with positive results we get a few early adopters that use the component and spread the word of success or failure. In this case we have sold 2 manifolds since we released it.



The real issues in retrospect:



1) For the last 7 years the forum has stated that the best intake manifold is OEM, nothing can beat it. There were a handful of companies that gave it a shot and either did not post results or publicly said that it did not work.



2) The red intake manifold comes out in 2017 and is then assumed that changing from the OEM plastic manifold to the cast red intake manifold will net you 10 whp. This is simply not the case. In reality it has a real gain of roughly 1 whp. However, we have major retailers claiming that it gains 10 whp and sells for $300 to $400. Why would an enthusiast purchase the Racer X manifold for $979 when he can have the red manifold for half the price for the same "claim in whp”?



3) Expectations. Several times there were unrealistic numbers thrown around. 20 or 30 whp gains. From the beginning we thought a 5-10 percent gain would be reasonable. The best math I ever learned was

(expectations + results = disappoint)

You proposed this product to the community and then didn't follow through with actually showing gains on a full bolt on engine with a proper tune. Now you're blaming the community for the products failings‽ And others are here supporting you and saying potential customers shouldn't expect proper and thorough testing before we buy‽‽

1) There's still a ton of views on this thread and at least a few people that were actually interested in where this went. The two previous intake manifold projects I remember were both based on forced induction applications and therefore were never meant to give good NA gains.

2) Maybe I'm too old and out of touch, but I never thought the new OEM style was good for anything more than a couple of whp. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3) 5-10% on a full bolt on engine would be ~10-20whp. That sounds pretty damn good to me. Show me its possible with at least an Ace header, full exhaust, and a proper tune. And put the air fuel ratios on the dyno plots. $10k to develop a product isn't nothing, but another ~$2k* for a good tune, and to donate a manifold to a customer in return for using their car, is still a very reasonable amount for developing a product.
Or not, it's entirely up to you. Obviously. But don't blame the customer base for not buying a product when they don't actually have any idea what they're buying.

*purely a guess.

[Lantanafrs2]

I think they designed the manifold to work with a popular ots tune, which it does. It seems to be stacking gains over header and tune which is an accomplishment. " Tiny bit of testing "? They made 7 prototypes.

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by Calum

That's where the previous posts lost me. You're attempting to sell something that will drastically change the air flow rate yet you're not using a tune made for the product and you didn't even post air fuel ratios for the tiny bit of testing you did do.



You proposed this product to the community and then didn't follow through with actually showing gains on a full bolt on engine with a proper tune. Now you're blaming the community for the products failings‽ And others are here supporting you and saying potential customers shouldn't expect proper and thorough testing before we buy‽‽

1) There's still a ton of views on this thread and at least a few people that were actually interested in where this went. The two previous intake manifold projects I remember were both based on forced induction applications and therefore were never meant to give good NA gains.

2) Maybe I'm too old and out of touch, but I never thought the new OEM style was good for anything more than a couple of whp. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3) 5-10% on a full bolt on engine would be ~10-20whp. That sounds pretty damn good to me. Show me its possible with at least an Ace header, full exhaust, and a proper tune. And put the air fuel ratios on the dyno plots. $10k to develop a product isn't nothing, but another ~$2k* for a good tune, and to donate a manifold to a customer in return for using their car, is still a very reasonable amount for developing a product.
Or not, it's entirely up to you. Obviously. But don't blame the customer base for not buying a product when they don't actually have any idea what they're buying.

*purely a guess.

Couldn't say it any better!

[SuperTom]

Calum exactly what we all have been saying.

Find someone with ACE headers/Delicious tune. Currently best NA setup

Add this manifold to their setup.

Work with Delicious on refining the tune for this new setup.

Post before/after dynos

Sell tons

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

Find someone with ACE headers/Delicious tune. Currently best NA setup

Add this manifold to their setup.

Sell tons

Has anyone with an ACE, DT Flex fuel tune purchased one, had the tune optimized and realized gains? TL;DR, late to the party as usual lol

Need more NA power and weight loss in my TT car !

[SuperTom]

Originally Posted by Joesurf79

Has anyone with an ACE, DT Flex fuel tune purchased one, had the tune optimized and realized gains? TL;DR, late to the party as usual lol

Need more NA power and weight loss in my TT car !

IM with you man! Im doing more weight loss while waiting for some of these NA power mods to come to out.


DT just started a new thread promising commitment to NA power. I just brought up this intake. I ll see if they respond. If more people respond maybe they will look into it. Not sure why Racer-X wont reach out on their own.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138728

[Joveen]

Originally Posted by SuperTom

IM with you man! Im doing more weight loss while waiting for some of these NA power mods to come to out.


DT just started a new thread promising commitment to NA power. I just brought up this intake. I ll see if they respond. If more people respond maybe they will look into it. Not sure why Racer-X wont reach out on their own.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138728

DT said that will have tunes for the greddy ITB and FB manifold. I'm sure they could squeeze something out of this. I plan to buy this soon but waiting for FI. I like NA but I love the stu tu tu tu tu!!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[captain awesome]

Almost finished with my install. Will post a DIY when I get all the little details I messed with sorted. Going to get some tuning started soon, and hopefully be ready for dyno by the end of the month.


I have the following:


Ace A350 header
1320 dual resonated front pipe
stock axleback
Penguin Tech Racing flex fuel kit


I'll be dyno testing on e85 for sure with the Racer X intake, then swapping back to stock for e85 and 91 comparisons. My only concern is the re-learning process after a re-flash. Any suggestions on that or is it nothing to worry about?



Ignore the janky silicone elbow setup. I'm waiting on a new black 45 elbow that won't be trimmed near as much this time.


Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

[czellers]

Originally Posted by Jeff@Racer X Fab

Looking forward to the feedback from the community, please let me know your comments and thoughts.

I could be wrong, but it seemed the initial objective was to create an off-the-shelf bolt on? While I respect the effort and work, how much physics/engineering went into this? It seems a like an extreme case of an evolution of "try and see what happens"

Also;

1) WTF is the benefit of testing with OEM intake components?
2) Wouldnt this have been more 'relevant' for forced induction applications?
3) The community at large seems to emphatically condemn aftermarket intakes, so what was the point of throwing all that R&D at a part the community (NA especially), would seem, to be hell bent against modifying?

I get if this sounds crass/judgemental (and it is) and I respect the decision to decline to answer.

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by czellers

I could be wrong, but it seemed the initial objective was to create an off-the-shelf bolt on? While I respect the effort and work, how much physics/engineering went into this? It seems a like an extreme case of an evolution of "try and see what happens"

Also;

1) WTF is the benefit of testing with OEM intake components?
2) Wouldnt this have been more 'relevant' for forced induction applications?
3) The community at large seems to emphatically condemn aftermarket intakes, so what was the point of throwing all that R&D at a part the community (NA especially), would seem, to be hell bent against modifying?

I get if this sounds crass/judgemental (and it is) and I respect the decision to decline to answer.

Most of the restriction from the stock intake is the inlet tube and filter.

Most people don't change the stock box to keep the MAF sensor location the same. You can add a high flow filter and a inlet tube for $150 and net 80-90% gains from an intake without the tuning headaches as a result of MAF needing to be rescaled.

It looks like the intake manifold sits higher than stock. Aftermarket intakes Likely wouldn't bolt up properly.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by czellers

I could be wrong, but it seemed the initial objective was to create an off-the-shelf bolt on? While I respect the effort and work, how much physics/engineering went into this? It seems a like an extreme case of an evolution of "try and see what happens"

Also;

1) WTF is the benefit of testing with OEM intake components?
2) Wouldnt this have been more 'relevant' for forced induction applications?
3) The community at large seems to emphatically condemn aftermarket intakes, so what was the point of throwing all that R&D at a part the community (NA especially), would seem, to be hell bent against modifying?

I get if this sounds crass/judgemental (and it is) and I respect the decision to decline to answer.

What are you so upset for?

[czellers]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

Most of the restriction from the stock intake is the inlet tube and filter.

Most people don't change the stock box to keep the MAF sensor location the same. You can add a high flow filter and a inlet tube for $150 and net 80-90% gains from an intake without the tuning headaches as a result of MAF needing to be rescaled.

It looks like the intake manifold sits higher than stock. Aftermarket intakes Likely wouldn't bolt up properly.

Right, ok. so its somewhat of a consensus on the OEM airbox/snorkel being far superior than aftermarket intakes (at least thats what ive seen on this forum). Having said that, why would anyone assume that since the OEM airbox/snorkel is better than aftermarket options, that an aftermarket intake manifold would somehow bet better than OEM?

I understand that an aftermarket intake would likely not line up. If they were going to do the R&D for an intake manifold, it makes more sense to really develop it as a whole system. Like who thought, "hey we know the intake system is better than aftermarket, I bet the OEM intake manifold could be so much better, we should sink thousands into R&D", and subsequently WHY would they think that? My theory is sales.. its an easier sell if its one part with those controlled margins, vs an entire intake system thats engineered properly.

TL;DR - They were trying to make a quick buck on an entry level bolt on, (also why i suspect it was done for NA applications aka more sales opportunities). They failed as a result of their shortsightedness in several areas primarily in business and engineering.

(plenty of YT videos with dyno results across different intakes:

seems up in the air to me)

[Westen86]

What is the shortcoming of this engine to not make 240+ crank hp in NA trim? Cams? I mean, dual injectors, VVT, 12.5:1.