Full Blown Turbo Kit Owners Topic

[Mikeez]

@blackfireball15 what was the conclusion of the problem? Your catch can did not stop the water or did the water get in from the intake? Since you technically have a cold intake set up with FBM....


Why would a vented catch can be bad for emission wise?

[blackfireball5]

Originally Posted by Mikeez

@blackfireball15 what was the conclusion of the problem? Your catch can did not stop the water or did the water get in from the intake? Since you technically have a cold intake set up with FBM....


Why would a vented catch can be bad for emission wise?

It seems as though most people believe that the water got there from water vapor condensing in the intercooler being recirculated from my Radium catch can. Most people are also saying the oil treated air filter would not have allowed that much water to enter the air filter through it.

So my conclusion is to modify my PCV catch can, and instead of it recirculating back into my intake, put a small filter on the exit of the catch can and make it vent to atmosphere.

Radium said this to me: "Condensation contamination is normal with all internal combustion engines. In fact, it is one of the reasons engine oil needs frequent changing. However, the catch can(s) should be collecting the majority of this water vapor."

Obviously I can't prove how the water got there either way, other than waiting to see if the problem occurs again after making a change to my system.

But there are enough smart people commenting in this thread (and getting frustrated with my constant posting) that suggest the same thing. So it's worth going with that solution.

A vented catch can is bad for emission reasons because you are venting the harmful gasses directly into the air as opposed to directing them back into your intake stream to be burnt. That's why strict emissions states would fail you if they see a vented system. That's a no no for the EPA. That's what I was trying to avoid with the Radium setup.

But a vented setup is the best way to go for performance.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Mikeez

Why would a vented catch can be bad for emission wise?

The engine is supposed to be burning those oiley gasses up not venting them to the atmosphere. It won't change what the sniffer sees, but a visual underhood inspection will probably fail. I didn't see @blackfireball5 's post on the next page. He nailed it.

[Mikeez]

Originally Posted by blackfireball5

It seems as though most people believe that the water got there from water vapor condensing in the intercooler being recirculated from my Radium catch can. Most people are also saying the oil treated air filter would not have allowed that much water to enter the air filter through it.

So my conclusion is to modify my PCV catch can, and instead of it recirculating back into my intake, put a small filter on the exit of the catch can and make it vent to atmosphere.

Radium said this to me: "Condensation contamination is normal with all internal combustion engines. In fact, it is one of the reasons engine oil needs frequent changing. However, the catch can(s) should be collecting the majority of this water vapor."

Obviously I can't prove how the water got there either way, other than waiting to see if the problem occurs again after making a change to my system.

But there are enough smart people commenting in this thread (and getting frustrated with my constant posting) that suggest the same thing. So it's worth going with that solution.

A vented catch can is bad for emission reasons because you are venting the harmful gasses directly into the air as opposed to directing them back into your intake stream to be burnt. That's why strict emissions states would fail you if they see a vented system. That's a no no for the EPA. That's what I was trying to avoid with the Radium setup.

But a vented setup is the best way to go for performance.

Originally Posted by King Tut

The engine is supposed to be burning those oiley gasses up not venting them to the atmosphere. It won't change what the sniffer sees, but a visual underhood inspection will probably fail. I didn't see @blackfireball5 's post on the next page. He nailed it.

I will reply to both of you here =p... I am actually taking Engineering and the Environment class this semester lol. I learn a lot here .
I should of done my project on this and not some dumb coffee cups.


Anyways sorry for that.


I understand the Heat Engine are in charge of burning the gasses that the catch can will release in the atmosphere. What I don't get the catch can set up in inside the engine bay. There's not much room to dissipate to the atmosphere.


Anyways, the engine releases the bad gases down the pipes and out the muffler. The cat cleans a % of it... Correct?


What is then the purpose of a catch can and wouldn't it make all of them illegal if the purpose was to collect water vapor?!?

[dabocx]

Originally Posted by Reaper

461 whp 393 wtq maxed out. Check my build thread the dyno should be in there.

How much boost was that at O_o

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Mikeez

Anyways, the engine releases the bad gases down the pipes and out the muffler. The cat cleans a % of it... Correct?

What is then the purpose of a catch can and wouldn't it make all of them illegal if the purpose was to collect water vapor?!?

You are confusing two things. The gasoline engine combustion process isn't perfect, so it releases harmful gasses. Those are absorbed by the cat and what is left goes out the tailpipe and is measured during an emissions check. That has nothing to do with a catch can or the positive crankcase pressure issue. That is caused by combustion gasses getting past the piston rings. The engine needs to have a way to relieve that pressure which is normally a PCV system where those gasses go back into the intake manifold to be burned as part of the normal combustion process. With a vented catch can you just vent those gasses to the atmosphere instead of sending them to the intake manifold.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by dabocx

How much boost was that at O_o

I think 19? Maybe 18. I run 16 most of the time now as its a muuuuch more controllable tune.

[dabocx]

Wow I made 370whp and 308wtq at 15psi, I need a better tune ASAP.

[Mikeez]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You are confusing two things. The gasoline engine combustion process isn't perfect, so it releases harmful gasses. Those are absorbed by the cat and what is left goes out the tailpipe and is measured during an emissions check. That has nothing to do with a catch can or the positive crankcase pressure issue. That is caused by combustion gasses getting past the piston rings. The engine needs to have a way to relieve that pressure which is normally a PCV system where those gasses go back into the intake manifold to be burned as part of the normal combustion process. With a vented catch can you just vent those gasses to the atmosphere instead of sending them to the intake manifold.

What is the purpose of the catch can ? Isn't to check your oil...? How can a catch can vent those gasses to the atm?


Anyways, someone told me manifold meant the header. Correct?


If that's the case what happens inside the engine is that when it releases those gasses it still all goes down the pipe which goes through the cat?


You don't have to answer all my questions... I am researching, but it will be grateful if you do...

[Infamous Performance]

Originally Posted by Mikeez

What is the purpose of the catch can ? Isn't to check your oil...? How can a catch can vent those gasses to the atm?

No. Dirty crank case gasses pass through it and oil collects in the bottom of it, oil that would otherwise be digested by the engine combustion.


Anyways, someone told me manifold meant the header. Correct? Yes, but it also refers to the intake. There are two manifolds, the intake manifold and the exhaust manifold.


If that's the case what happens inside the engine is that when it releases those gasses it still all goes down the pipe which goes through the cat?

Piston rings do not seal 100% and as a result, pressurized gasses from the combustion process will leak out into the crankcase area of the engine, this is known as "blow by". This is just a fact of our modern internal combustion engine. Pressurizing the crankcase is, of course, not desirable. It can lead to blown out crank seals, oil leaks, etc. So the crankcase gasses have to be vented through the PCV system, which recycles the air back into the intake stream. The vented gasses contain oil vapor, water vapor and other nasty stuff that, if not dealt with, can coat the intake tract of the engine with oil and sludge.


You don't have to answer all my questions... I am researching, but it will be grateful if you do...

Hope this helps some. Info provided to me by a manufacturer (I am just regurgitating it).

[Mikeez]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Hope this helps some. Info provided to me by a manufacturer (I am just regurgitating it).

Answered all my question, but defies a little thermo dynamics xD. Anyways, research is all it takes!


Thanks buddy.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Infamous Performance

Hope this helps some. Info provided to me by a manufacturer (I am just regurgitating it).

Nailed it.

[Reaper]

@FullBlown check out blackfireball s posts. PMed.

[blackfireball5]

I broke the white wire going to the maf sensor giving me a P0102 code. So I'm trying to figure out how to fix that right now. Once I do, I can focus on altering my catch can to vent. And hopefully I'll be good after that.