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Old 10-14-2020, 10:21 PM   #57
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Getting stuff from where I'm from is difficult - the PS95-8s are at least twice the price here, but it's still considered cheap compared to other higher end stuff. You guys are fortunate
i can't seem to find them right now, but there used to be dayton audio resellers in other countries that might help you save some money.

tang band also makes a few speakers that might work for you(a lot of international shops stock them), though reviews on every individual driver are usually extremely polarizing, potentially indicating poor/low quality control, so i generally stay away from them unless they're the only driver that fits the need.
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Old 10-15-2020, 09:50 AM   #58
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if a 3-way/4-way setup is definitely an area you want to go, i highly recommend a DSP. especially for you, @FR-S2GT86 with your 4-way setup.

i installed the dayton dsp-408 in my truck specifically for more advanced crossover control (needed a 400hz x-over on the high freq drivers, deck stopped at 200hz, or started at 1.2khz in network mode), and the featureset is highly adjustable. each of the 8 outputs can have it's own independent parametric eq, as well as time alignment and phasing options. it does exactly what i built a $1500+ carpc for a dozen years ago for under $200!

the minidsp 6x8 does a lot of the same thing at a slightly higher cost as well..
I've looked into DSP modules, and currently the only one that I would consider would be the Mosconi 8-12 Aerospace, which is very pricey. Until the need outweighs the expense, I'm fine with what I'm running now as the built-in DSP for my Pioneer head unit works exceptionally well for my needs.

And on that note, there is no DSP module on the market that does what I would want it to do. I would want something that has comparative signal input-output monitoring and active feedback response adjustment. (I know, right? What the heck is this guy talking about?) It simply doesn't exist yet. I can elaborate if you'd like.
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:16 PM   #59
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And on that note, there is no DSP module on the market that does what I would want it to do. I would want something that has comparative signal input-output monitoring and active feedback response adjustment. (I know, right? What the heck is this guy talking about?) It simply doesn't exist yet. I can elaborate if you'd like.
there's been too much of a push lately for 'headless' setups, so to ask for more display options out of components like dsp's seems likely to never happen.

even in pro audio, i/o monitoring just barely exists, but just barely, and not enough to accurately depict a dsp's alterations of an audio signal.

but i don't know anything about feedback response.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:50 PM   #60
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there's been too much of a push lately for 'headless' setups, so to ask for more display options out of components like dsp's seems likely to never happen.

even in pro audio, i/o monitoring just barely exists, but just barely, and not enough to accurately depict a dsp's alterations of an audio signal.

but i don't know anything about feedback response.
Yeah, that push for headless car audio is a step in the wrong direction in my book. I don't want to control my sound system via a smart phone app. I require everything mounted up front in my dash. Besides, I'm still old school and I can't slide a CD into my Android phone. And all those new Android OS decks out now that could run the DSP software and that can ALSO play CD's or DVD's are low quality compared to what I am experienced with in Pioneer Premier, Alpine, Kenwood, Sony, etc. There doesn't seem to be any head unit available that has the combination of features that I would want for my system, which is why I stacked two single-din head units in a double din configuration. I get the modern conveniences with the Alpine deck with the old-school reliability and high voltage RCA outputs of the Pioneer Premier deck. And I can always add an Android device mounted to my sun visor via Bluetooth like I did in my work vehicle as you can see here:
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Anything that I play music-wise using the Android device gets sent to the Alpine head unit, processed a bit with the parametric equalizer in that, then sent to the Pioneer head unit through its AUX input and then further processed with the DSP and then output through the high, mid and low signals. This setup is pretty much all I need for the time being.

Never put all your eggs in one basket is what I say.

And to further explain what I mean by comparative signal input-output monitoring and active feedback response adjustment, it would take a whole write-up dedicated specifically to that. If you want me to, and if I can find the time next week, I will do that.
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Old 10-16-2020, 02:00 PM   #61
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For half an hour I was trying to figure out why my crossover settings on the headunit could not be accessed. Turns out that if the memory setting was set to locked it would also disable the option, for some odd reason.

Changed the settings back to 2-way, and took a look at the subwoofer settings - and found out I had set it on the wrong phase. Frankly it didn't sound too anemic with the wrong phase, but my powered sub is able to do fine adjustments from 0 to 180. I'll get an RTA app and play some test tones to get the phase set correctly.

As for gain settings - increase slowly at loudest listening levels till the sub clips, then dial it down a little and use head unit for control. I recall seeing a volume control and a gain setting for the sub at the headunit but the former shouldn't be there... any thoughts?

Also as my sub and headunit has a crossover setting (frequency adjustment on the sub, frequency+rolloff on the headunit) - what would be the best way to go about this? My thought process is to set the sub's crossover frequency to the max it can go and let the head unit do the actual crossover with the setting I want. But how does the sub's 'default' rolloff setting influence the rolloff set on the head unit?
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:21 PM   #62
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Changed the settings back to 2-way, and took a look at the subwoofer settings - and found out I had set it on the wrong phase. Frankly it didn't sound too anemic with the wrong phase, but my powered sub is able to do fine adjustments from 0 to 180. I'll get an RTA app and play some test tones to get the phase set correctly.
i generally try to hold close to 0 degrees, but it's worth playing with, as altering the phase can change how the subwoofer interacts with the other speakers as well as the environment it's installed in--the goal is to make the subwoofer blend with the front speakers in a way that the bass sounds like it's in front of you. sometimes everything plays better at 180 deg out of phase. also important to note here that typically, each increase in crossover slope(6db, 12db, 18db, and 24db) will shift it's speakers 90 degrees away of the original phase.

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As for gain settings - increase slowly at loudest listening levels till the sub clips, then dial it down a little and use head unit for control. I recall seeing a volume control and a gain setting for the sub at the headunit but the former shouldn't be there... any thoughts?
there's a billion different video's on setting gains. i tend to ignore all of them and generally set it just about half most times...


there's a gain/volume adjustment in the head unit to allow easier blending/adjustment of the sub output. "season to taste"

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Also as my sub and headunit has a crossover setting (frequency adjustment on the sub, frequency+rolloff on the headunit) - what would be the best way to go about this? My thought process is to set the sub's crossover frequency to the max it can go and let the head unit do the actual crossover with the setting I want. But how does the sub's 'default' rolloff setting influence the rolloff set on the head unit?


personally, i generally set the amplifier crossover settings to a minimum 'failsafe' level just in case i seriously mess up the head unit settings, so i don't have to worry about messing up speakers.
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:10 PM   #63
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I found some really informative topics written up by a guy named Andy Wehmeyer from Audiofrog covering time-alignment and crossovers and how they affect the phasing relationship between different drivers in an audio system. These are well worth the read.

https://www.audiofrog.com/community/tech-tips/
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Old 10-31-2020, 12:09 PM   #64
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I got the Dayton PS95-8s a while back and I finally had some time to do a test fit. It came in a compact box, nicely packed with a plastic cover on the delicates. Overall the build quality was great which was certainly promising.

So I got to removing the passenger speaker grill, disconnected the tweeter, jumped the connections and fit my own speaker harness to the Dayton for an A-B test.

Dropping the speaker into the space - the first thing that happened was that it couldn't fit. @soundman98 I saw an image of your Daytons posted somewhere which the speaker basket ring would rest on the plastic dashboard frame; on mine, the speaker magnet bottomed out on the air-conditioning duct right under the speaker placement - uh oh.

At the very least, I could still test out the speaker. I placed it in the space, reseated the grill and went on with the test.







The sub was turned off, crossovers set up to remove as much output from the door speakers, and turned off DTA and EQ (dropped off all EQ below 100Hz, rest left to flat). Now I'm no pro in explaining audio terms but I'll try as best as I can.

The overall experience was actually poorer than the stock speakers. For some reason the overall output was OK, however there was a lack of punch from the low frequencies that it was intended to play, without a separate distinction of the instruments and voices. The latter was obviously due to that it was a coax; but all of a sudden it felt so odd as if I've lost the stage.

My first test track was Kina Grannis' Can't Help Falling in Love - and in a similar way, I couldn't help (pun intended) but feel that her voice wasn't isolated; it didn't sound clean and closer to being life-like. The guitar plucks, too did not emerge separately, which everything sounded as if it was played thru a single output (yeah well duh, coax).

Next track was Fleetwood Mac's Everywhere - and it was the same. Everything was muddled, from the percussion to the guitars when faded to the Dayton but played with more clarity and isolation on the stock speakers.

Baffling, but maybe I should have seen it coming. I wasn't sure of what improvements to expect in the first place but somehow it couldn't improve anything better to my ears subjectively. Maybe I should toy a bit more with the crossovers but there's probably nothing I can do to widen the stage.

@soundman98 I appreciate the advice given previously, I'm just not sure on why it couldn't mount like how yours did. My bad for not doing a measurement in the first place, but with the amount of modifications that I need to do to get it to fit - it's probably not worth it.
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Old 11-02-2020, 09:48 AM   #65
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Welcome to the world of custom aftermarket car audio.
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Old 11-02-2020, 11:51 AM   #66
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Welcome to the world of custom aftermarket car audio.


I've not dabbled much in custom works to be honest. I've mostly done speaker drop ins, aftermarket HUs, amps and self installation / tuning in my previous cars but that's about it. This car is geared towards performance first, creature comforts come second. And from where I live it's better to be hush about your gear or you'd find it missing the next day.

Would love to hear a custom SQ setup by the pros the next chance I have, here it's mostly SPL...
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Old 01-14-2021, 01:14 PM   #67
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Last weekend I made a budget upgrade to my 2014 BRZ audio system. The aim was to get more bass. I installed a more powerful 4 channel amp in place of the rear amp, along with a 10" subwoofer. Channels 1 & 2 of the amp power the stock door speakers. Channels 3 & 4 of the amp are bridged and power the subwoofer.

The amp has variable crossovers (either Low Pass or High Pass) for channels 1/2 and 3/4. I set the 3/4 crossover to Low Pass around 90hz. So it allows 90hz and lower to the sub.

My question - how should I set the crossover for the 1/2 channels going to the stock door speakers? Which of the following two options A or B would be recommended?:

A) Set crossover to High Pass, only letting frequencies over say 100hz to the door speakers. This would allow the door speakers to focus on the upper/mid bass, without getting lower frequency distortion. The down side is - door speakers would get all upper frequencies, which they are not meant to handle.

B) Set crossover to Low Pass, only letting frequencies under 200hz or so to the door speakers. This would prevent the high frequencies from going to the door speakers. Downside is - it would allow the very low frequencies also to hit the door speakers. And those low frequencies are better handled by the sub.

Options A and B seem to have pluses/minuses. Is one recommended over the other?

There is also "option C" possible. Set door speaker high pass to 100hz or so, and buy a choke to install inline, to prevent the higher frequencies from reaching the door speakers. Would that be worthwhile?
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Old 01-14-2021, 02:03 PM   #68
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Last weekend I made a budget upgrade to my 2014 BRZ audio system. The aim was to get more bass. I installed a more powerful 4 channel amp in place of the rear amp, along with a 10" subwoofer. Channels 1 & 2 of the amp power the stock door speakers. Channels 3 & 4 of the amp are bridged and power the subwoofer.

The amp has variable crossovers (either Low Pass or High Pass) for channels 1/2 and 3/4. I set the 3/4 crossover to Low Pass around 90hz. So it allows 90hz and lower to the sub.

My question - how should I set the crossover for the 1/2 channels going to the stock door speakers? Which of the following two options A or B would be recommended?:

A) Set crossover to High Pass, only letting frequencies over say 100hz to the door speakers. This would allow the door speakers to focus on the upper/mid bass, without getting lower frequency distortion. The down side is - door speakers would get all upper frequencies, which they are not meant to handle.

B) Set crossover to Low Pass, only letting frequencies under 200hz or so to the door speakers. This would prevent the high frequencies from going to the door speakers. Downside is - it would allow the very low frequencies also to hit the door speakers. And those low frequencies are better handled by the sub.

Options A and B seem to have pluses/minuses. Is one recommended over the other?

There is also "option C" possible. Set door speaker high pass to 100hz or so, and buy a choke to install inline, to prevent the higher frequencies from reaching the door speakers. Would that be worthwhile?

Can you explain to us what kind of audio signals you have coming into the amplifier? And can you show us a picture of your amplifier, specifically a picture of the crossover/filter set switches or dials? (or list the brand and model of it so that we can try and figure out the best set up for you in your case). You may be able to work something out if you can make some pre-amp crossover adjustments and if your head unit has the correct type of filtering.

Right now, I see only problems arising without the use of some sort of band-pass set up on your door speakers, which CAN be done IF planned out and set up properly. It took me quite a while to weigh the pros and cons of my set up and even longer to actually find the right equipment to make it work, but I did finally make it work (technically, I am STILL making it work as my project is on hold for the moment). See some of my posts about it from last year.
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:37 PM   #69
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At least give option A a listen. It's likely going to be the most balanced without a ton of extra components. They don't just make speaker level bandpass crossovers, so we very quickly get into custom-built designs...

The majority of low end speaker designs rely on the same effect. Cutting the unreproducible bass, and letting the speaker do everything else. It's how the dash speakers are set up.
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Old 01-15-2021, 09:04 AM   #70
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At least give option A a listen. It's likely going to be the most balanced without a ton of extra components. They don't just make speaker level bandpass crossovers, so we very quickly get into custom-built designs...

The majority of low end speaker designs rely on the same effect. Cutting the unreproducible bass, and letting the speaker do everything else. It's how the dash speakers are set up.
I played around some with Option A yesterday, and found by setting the HPF to around 80hz for the stock door speakers, I'm getting a nice sound in terms of the bass, with the sub taking care of the bass below 80hz. These settings seemed to provide the best combo for deeper bass songs (tested with Maroon 5 "Moves Like Jagger"), and songs with a bit higher bass (tested with AC/DC "Girls Got Rythm").
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