How satisfied are you with your FR-S/BRZ?

[Mr.Impreza]

I love mine more and more every year. I put it to storage this weekend for the 3rd time and it's been an amazing 2.5 years of ownership.

Zero complaints.
Zero maintenance problems.

Love this car and will keep it forever ^___^

[Guru Woodman]

@Mr.Impreza, Same here. I have owned many cars (48) and this one hits the spot. It is growing on me and every time I take it out it feels like I am treating myself. I look around every time I walk away. It has been trouble free and I have no complaints.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I've only had mine for about 6 months.


I'd say I'm about 7/10 right now. I love the way the car looks and I think the interior is okay.


I do think the mileage could be better. I normally average 33-34mpgs, but the fact that I'm required to buy premium kills it. At the gas station closest to my office, premium is $0.80 more a gallon. Comes to an extra $10 a tank.


My main gripe with the car is the engine. From the torque dip to the weird idling quirks, the diesel chatter when lugging to the crickets in the fuel pump, it just feels like an unrefined engine. Like I'm beta testing it.


It just does weird things that no other car I've ever had ever did. Just this morning, when I started it up -- it was about 36° outside -- it had a pretty big misfire... or something. While waiting for it to warm up, it was shaking the car.


That's not the first time it's had a kind of hiccup like that. Also, one time, the clutch slipped when going into third. My foot was all the way off the clutch and suddenly the car was going no where, then suddenly came back. It was either the clutch slipping or maybe it cut out again. Who knows.


The car just does weird things. And it's a little disconcerting. I don't think the car will leave me stranded, but with only 18k miles on it, I worry about the car long-term.


On a curvy backroad, the car has given me a couple experiences that I'll always remember. Hitting Lime Creek Road in Austin was amazing.


As a daily driver, it's not great but I've gotten used to it. I've had some issues with the head unit but a new phone seems to have fixed that. My seat heaters are barely there. Sometimes they work, sometimes it's a just placebo effect, haha.


It's a beautiful, niche car that's got some serious drawbacks. After 6 months of ownership and 18k miles, I'm still conflicted about it. When everything's going well and I'm in the right mood, the car is great. When it's acting up and I just want a reliable DD, I don't care for it. When I walk away from it to go to work, I look back at it.

33-34 mpg is still impressive in my book for a car that sounds like a diesel engine when idling sometimes I don't mind the extra cost for premium engine it was expected for a sky high compression engine of this car.

For me a bigger fuel tank for my long drive and trips would be great a slightly bigger displacement wouldn't hurt either I know people go crazy about turbos and supercharger but I love the less complex issues N/A gives in the long run.


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[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

I hear the low budget excuses all the time, but the fact is other cars that cost the same amount of money aren't having the same issues. At least, not any of my friends cars. The fact is, it's just a very poorly built car. Many people are happy with it, and that's fine. It just doesn't work for me.

I'll be selling the car, I just don't know when yet. Still want a car for the track next season, so it just sits in the garage until then. I drove it for the 2nd time in 2 months last weekend and made it a whole block before thinking about taking it back and getting a different car. The whole car just sounds like it's falling apart with the dash, rear deck, door panels, throw out bearing, and speakers rattling. Then there's the garbage gearbox until it's warmed up, the drivetrain lash, the DI fuel pump sounding like crickets, reverse lockout on the shifter rattling, etc etc. I can't even turn the speakers up to drown out the noises because it makes the door panels rattle louder. This car is only fun to drive on a track, not even as a weekend car.

Everyone has their preference in cars, which I totally respect. If you're asking ME...I'll be picking up an 09+ Cayman S or a C6 Corvette Grand Sport. I have an XTerra for daily/winter use and a supercharged c5 zo6 that I use for a weekend fun car, drag, auto cross, 1/2 mile, and 1 mile racing. It's become a bit much for a road course and will take some time (and a lot of cooling) before it can do that and not be a 3 lap wonder. So, the Cayman or a Grand Sport will slot in nicely for another fun car and track warrior.

I don't think the interior is bad as some think it is but lets be honest for a 28K sports car I not Lexus premium quality but the seats on these imho are a home run love how it supports night and day difference to my 2002 Celica.


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[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

This is truth. My last car was a Mazda3 that cost damn near half as much as my BRZ and it was solid as a rock. Great car.

Great example, Mazda created a cheap powertrain & chassis (with Ford's help) they could put in a dozen different cars to churn out hundreds of thousands of them and poured all of the budget into refining the fit and finish. Spreading development costs over a large volume of units is a huge boon to all of the 86's competitors that is vastly underappreciated by the common consumer.

Mazda has sold over 90,000 3's in the US every year for the past 10 years.
There are less than 90,000 86's currently on US roads after 4.5 years of production. Nothing else will use an FA20 or the Aisin gearbox, no other car will be built on this chassis and those decisions are reflected in the final pricetag.

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

I hear the low budget excuses all the time, but the fact is other cars that cost the same amount of money aren't having the same issues.

The whole car just sounds like it's falling apart with the dash, rear deck, door panels, throw out bearing, and speakers rattling. Then there's the garbage gearbox until it's warmed up, the drivetrain lash, the DI fuel pump sounding like crickets, reverse lockout on the shifter rattling, etc etc.

Everyone has their preference in cars, which I totally respect. If you're asking ME...I'll be picking up an 09+ Cayman S or a C6 Corvette Grand Sport.

I'd say other cars that cost the same amount of money made different design compromises, whether it's using a truck powertrain or the same chassis as an economy car. What is an 'issue' to you is a non-issue to most people who bought this car. Literally all of your complaints I've experienced and I just don't care, my car has surpassed 54,000 miles and shows zero signs of falling apart.

You prove the point by shopping for cars that cost 2x-3x as much to make, not a GTI or Camaro.

To you, 'poorly built' means speakers that rattle and a gearbox that doesn't operate smoothly while cold, to me it means driveshafts that disintegrate at speed (Mustang), engine bearings that fail (Porsche), burning up brakes with pseudo 'torque vectoring' (every FWD hatch), or overheating (Corvette). I don't think it's wrong to criticize the 86 for it's shortcomings, but saying it's inferior than the competition without acknowledging that it was never going to be as quiet and smooth as a Golf is narrow minded.

I'm not trying to be a ****, I think it's a good thing this car helped you figure out your preferences, you're simply willing, and capable, of paying for a higher quality of fit and finish then Toyobaru offers. If I could afford to beat the hell out of a Porsche (that's not a Boxster or 924/944) instead of this car I certainly would.

[86Boyz]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ
I hear the low budget excuses all the time, but the fact is other cars that cost the same amount of money aren't having the same issues.

The whole car just sounds like it's falling apart with the dash, rear deck, door panels, throw out bearing, and speakers rattling. Then there's the garbage gearbox until it's warmed up, the drivetrain lash, the DI fuel pump sounding like crickets, reverse lockout on the shifter rattling, etc etc.

Everyone has their preference in cars, which I totally respect. If you're asking ME...I'll be picking up an 09+ Cayman S or a C6 Corvette Grand Sport.

If you can afford those why would you buy a Twin in the first place? If I had the money I would go buy a Alfa Romeo 4C or a Jaguar F-Type but I'm a broke ass jigga so FR-S it is for me for now.

[Apex_BRZ]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Great example, Mazda created a cheap powertrain & chassis (with Ford's help) they could put in a dozen different cars to churn out hundreds of thousands of them and poured all of the budget into refining the fit and finish. Spreading development costs over a large volume of units is a huge boon to all of the 86's competitors that is vastly underappreciated by the common consumer.

Mazda has sold over 90,000 3's in the US every year for the past 10 years.
There are less than 90,000 86's currently on US roads after 4.5 years of production. Nothing else will use an FA20 or the Aisin gearbox, no other car will be built on this chassis and those decisions are reflected in the final pricetag.



I'd say other cars that cost the same amount of money made different design compromises, whether it's using a truck powertrain or the same chassis as an economy car. What is an 'issue' to you is a non-issue to most people who bought this car. Literally all of your complaints I've experienced and I just don't care, my car has surpassed 54,000 miles and shows zero signs of falling apart.

You prove the point by shopping for cars that cost 2x-3x as much to make, not a GTI or Camaro.

To you, 'poorly built' means speakers that rattle and a gearbox that doesn't operate smoothly while cold, to me it means driveshafts that disintegrate at speed (Mustang), engine bearings that fail (Porsche), burning up brakes with pseudo 'torque vectoring' (every FWD hatch), or overheating (Corvette). I don't think it's wrong to criticize the 86 for it's shortcomings, but saying it's inferior than the competition without acknowledging that it was never going to be as quiet and smooth as a Golf is narrow minded.

I'm not trying to be a ****, I think it's a good thing this car helped you figure out your preferences, you're simply willing, and capable, of paying for a higher quality of fit and finish then Toyobaru offers. If I could afford to beat the hell out of a Porsche (that's not a Boxster or 924/944) instead of this car I certainly would.

I'm not even arguing with anyone in my posts. While I think it's sad people will accept all of these little things (that add up to me as an annoying car to drive on street) under some odd pretense that it's to be expected on a car this cheap...I assumed it was just a love for Subaru thing. I get that, and it's cool. :

Someone casually asked what I would consider replacing it with and I answered. I wasn't comparing the BRZ to any of those directly. The cars were $50k+ new. My head isn't so far in the clouds I'll compare those to a $30k car. However, people have their Subaru hats on too tight if they think all the stuff I listed is perfectly fine after only 3 years and 46k miles.

If you can afford those why would you buy a Twin in the first place? If I had the money I would go buy a Alfa Romeo 4C or a Jaguar F-Type but I'm a broke ass jigga so FR-S it is for me for now.

Didn't have the XTerra at the time and hit a deer with my Grand Am daily driver. So needed something I could use in the winters, as a daily driver, and autocorrect/track. Wanted a really light, rwd sports car. It fit the bill perfectly and I've had a lot of fun with it. Now all the little problems that popped up in the last year are just annoying the crap out of me and I'm ready to move on, only without the limitations/needs I had before.

Used, not new. They cost the same or very slightly more than a new, loaded Limited BRZ. My BRZ was a little more than $29,000 new back in 2013. You can get an 09+ Cayman S and C6 Grand Sport with low miles for $30k-$35k. The GrandSport will cost a bit more to track due to tires.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

33-34 mpg is still impressive in my book for a car that sounds like a diesel engine when idling sometimes I don't mind the extra cost for premium engine it was expected for a sky high compression engine of this car.

Well, I hate to bring it up again but my Mazda3 had an even higher compression ratio (13:1 here in the states and 14:1 global) and got 40+mpgs on regular.


I guess that car spoiled me, lol.



That 2.0 Skyactiv-G is a great engine.

[Guru Woodman]

Comparing new 0 mile vehicles with used second had cars makes no sense. You can win any argument with this comparison. Not quiet enough? Buy a 1997 Rolls Royce for less Not enough space? 2004 Topkick? Too slow? A 911 is better then a silly twin.

Porsche 718 Cayman: MSRP $ 53,900.00
Chevrolet Corvette GS: MSRP $ 65,450.00
Jaguar F type: MSRP $ 61,400.00
Alfa Romeo 4C: MSRP: From $55,900.00

Toyota 86: MSRP: $26,255.00

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Great example, Mazda created a cheap powertrain & chassis (with Ford's help) they could put in a dozen different cars to churn out hundreds of thousands of them and poured all of the budget into refining the fit and finish. Spreading development costs over a large volume of units is a huge boon to all of the 86's competitors that is vastly underappreciated by the common consumer.

Mazda has sold over 90,000 3's in the US every year for the past 10 years.
There are less than 90,000 86's currently on US roads after 4.5 years of production. Nothing else will use an FA20 or the Aisin gearbox, no other car will be built on this chassis and those decisions are reflected in the final pricetag.

You're not wrong but it makes me question why Subayota decided to do it that way. Chassis and all that, yes, I'm glad they made a purpose built setup. But engine and trans? Sourcing it or creating something that could be used cross-platform couldn't have hurt. Hell, create something for the twins and then use it in other cars and call it an upgrade for those models. Good economies of scale and good marketing too.


Mazda uses the 2.0L in the ND and other things.

[Apex_BRZ]

Originally Posted by Guru Woodman

Comparing new 0 mile vehicles with used second had cars makes no sense. You can win any argument with this comparison. Not quite enough? Buy a 1997 Rolls Royce for less Not enough space? 2004 Topkick? Too slow? A 911 is better the a silly twin.

Porsche 718 Cayman: MSRP $ 53,900.00
Chevrolet Corvette GS: MSRP $ 65,450.00
Jaguar F type: MSRP $ 61,400.00
Alfa Romeo 4C: MSRP: From $55,900.00

Toyota 86: MSRP: $26,255.00

I agree, it's silly to do that. And you guys REALLY need to read what I've typed. Both are used cars, an 09 Cayman and a C6 GrandSport. Both are 6-8yr old cars going for $30k. Also, I never compared them anyway. You guys are doing that. Someone just casually asked what I was considering replacing it with.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Apex_BRZ

However, people have their Subaru hats on too tight if they think all the stuff I listed is perfectly fine after only 3 years and 46k miles.

Perfectly fine? Naw.
Acceptable compromises? Maybe for some.



Funny thing is, a lot of that stuff was there on day 1 of most of these things.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

Well, I hate to bring it up again but my Mazda3 had an even higher compression ratio (13:1 here in the states and 14:1 global) and got 40+mpgs on regular.

I guess that car spoiled me, lol.

That 2.0 Skyactiv-G is a great engine.

I was thinking about it a bit more, assuming Mazda is saying they cost $16k to build after you take out profit margin and other stuff, they expect to sell 90k * 5 years, that's $7.2 billion dollars spent on making that car, if 95% of that is hardware and labor, that's $360 million available for R&D engineering from the US market alone.

Lets try those numbers for the 86, figure 150k units (total), $23k, that's $3.45 bil, 5% = $173 million for R&D. The 86 was likely engineered on a much smaller budget than the Mazda3 was, I'd estimate almost half as much money.

@Tcoat will slap me down if I'm being stupid.

They say Volkswagen puts their best engineers on the Golf. Not the Macan, Toureg, Lamborghini, or Bugatti, but the Golf.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

But engine and trans? Sourcing it or creating something that could be used cross-platform couldn't have hurt. Hell, create something for the twins and then use it in other cars and call it an upgrade for those models.

This is a pretty good article about the 'why'
http://blog.toyota.co.uk/tada-how-to...eated-the-gt86

The FA20 is the new baseline engine for Subaru so they're getting money out of that. The chassis and transmission are useless for Subaru because they're not giving up on AWD. Toyota would have to design new chassis to use engine/trans so that would be silly, and re-using the chassis probably got nixxed as soon as things got serious with BMW about the Z5/FT1 and they went mid-engined with the SFR, if they could commision more units from Subaru, I bet Lexus thinks it would take too much work to re-purpose to be luxury oriented. The gearbox is a derivative of their Lexus/Aisin units so they saved some bucks there.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Perfectly fine? Naw.
Acceptable compromises? Maybe for some.



Funny thing is, a lot of that stuff was there on day 1 of most of these things.





I was thinking about it a bit more, assuming Mazda is saying they cost $16k to build after you take out profit margin and other stuff, they expect to sell 90k * 5 years, that's $7.2 billion dollars spent on making that car, if 95% of that is hardware and labor, that's $360 million available for R&D engineering from the US market alone.

Lets try those numbers for the 86, figure 150k units (total), $23k, that's $3.45 bil, 5% = $173 million for R&D. The 86 was likely engineered on a much smaller budget than the Mazda3 was, I'd estimate almost half as much money.

@Tcoat will slap me down if I'm being stupid.

.

Nope you nailed it!
You are wasting your breath though since your target audience are just going to second guess the teams at Toyota and Subaru on every point. For some reason every person that got bored with the car knows exactly what it should have been and has a business plan to back it.
If they made the car to the standards that some would like it would be another $100K sports car lost is the shuffle with the rest of them and most would never have been able to touch it in the first place. Little do they know that the 8 year old cars they can afford are going to have all the issues that this one does and more. Hell some of them are worse than this brand new (look closely at a lower end Porsche interior). That will be OK though because it is a Porsche, Corvette, etc, etc.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If they made the car to the standards that some would like it would be another $100K sports car lost is the shuffle with the rest of them and most would never have been able to touch it in the first place.