Next Gen BRZ/86!

[pkolanko]

Scion
FR-S
2017 6.846
2016 7.457
2015 10.507
2014 14.062
2013 18.327
2012 11.417


Subaru
BRZ
2017 4.131
2016 4.141
2015 5.296
2014 7.504
2013 8.587
2012 4.144

These are the current sales numbers... 2018 is even worse.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by pkolanko

Scion
FR-S
2017 6.846
2016 7.457
2015 10.507
2014 14.062
2013 18.327
2012 11.417


Subaru
BRZ
2017 4.131
2016 4.141
2015 5.296
2014 7.504
2013 8.587
2012 4.144

These are the current sales numbers... 2018 is even worse.

Thanks. We've never seen these before.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Thanks. We've never seen these before.

I think it's a real response to someonetalking about how much more brzs sell than the 86.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by himbo

A niche car like this was never intended to be sold in high numbers - though for what this car is, the numbers are solid. Lots of part-sharing between the two brands is how the brands can actually make money off them.

Partially true, but it is not clear whether Toyota will continue this collaboration -- and they sell more than the BRZ. With the numbers dropping, and 2018 significantly less, will there still be the volume to warrant any major upgrades? Personally, I hope the collaboration continues, but I don't know what will stem the decline, especially as compact SUV's get more performance oriented. Toyota is a much larger brand and therefore the share of 86's to total Toyota sales is much less than the BRZ is to total Subaru sales. And that's how corporate decisions are made. Toyota has 3 times the number of dealerships than Subaru. And Subaru is a growing brand other than the BRZ. Niche products still need to make money. Making minor changes means no significant retooling so that's what makes sense financially.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by himbo

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/04/04/...z-turbo-rumor/

Still a rumor but Japan Times is supposed to be a reputable source. I know that Subaru recently introduced the FA24 for the Ascent - which maintains the stroke of the FA20, but expands the bore. That sounds like it could mean a higher redline (more oversquare than before). Crossing my fingers!

Kinda screws the marketing guys over (86 x 86 and all)!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by pkolanko

Scion
FR-S
2017 6.846
2016 7.457
2015 10.507
2014 14.062
2013 18.327
2012 11.417


Subaru
BRZ
2017 4.131
2016 4.141
2015 5.296
2014 7.504
2013 8.587
2012 4.144

These are the current sales numbers... 2018 is even worse.

Now post the sales numbers for cars like the 370z, Miata, and Fiat 124.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Now post the sales numbers for cars like the 370z, Miata, and Fiat 124.

The 370Z sold at least 5 units this year.


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[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The 370Z sold at least 5 units this year.


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According to the latest insider rumor the Z won't even be replaced after 370z production ends.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

According to the latest insider rumor the Z won't even be replaced after 370z production ends.

Makes sense, it's in a totally dead segment. In 2003 it had a 25-30hp advantage on the mustang GT, now it's down 130 horses to the Ford. It's heavier than it should be and the build quality isn't there for how expensive it is. It either needs to become a muscle at, or come downmarket to compete with the Miata and the 86, neither of which can be done with minor upgrades, which is all Nissan wants to spend R&D on.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Now post the sales numbers for cars like the 370z, Miata, and Fiat 124.

Exactly! Sales numbers for one make and model do not show a thing.
In fact sales numbers alone are almost meaningless unless we know what the business plan said they wanted to make and how many they actually did. If they planned to, and actually made, 8,000 86s and sold 6,846 that is a success. If they planned to, and actually made, 20,000 86s and sold 6,846 that is a horrible failure. Unless somebody is privy to the plan and the actual units made the sales are not a good indicator of success.


Let's play the sales numbers game for last month just for laughs though.
Looks to me that if we base the future of each model on sales numbers then the Miata should be gone soon and BMW might as well just pack in most of their models.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

According to the latest insider rumor the Z won't even be replaced after 370z production ends.

Makes sense, it's in a totally dead segment. In 2003 it had a 25-30hp advantage on the mustang GT, now it's down 130 horses to the Ford. It's heavier than it should be and the build quality isn't there for how expensive it is. It either needs to become a muscle at, or come downmarket to compete with the Miata and the 86, neither of which can be done with minor upgrades, which is all Nissan wants to spend R&D on.


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[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Makes sense, it's in a totally dead segment. In 2003 it had a 25-30hp advantage on the mustang GT, now it's down 130 horses to the Ford. It's heavier than it should be and the build quality isn't there for how expensive it is. It either needs to become a muscle at, or come downmarket to compete with the Miata and the 86, neither of which can be done with minor upgrades, which is all Nissan wants to spend R&D on.


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Nissan is a sh!t company in general.

They cheap out in so many areas yet charge the same or more than their competitors.

My son bought a G35 and I hate that thing. So many little areas where Infinity went cheap.

I was looking at the new Q60 Red Sport 400 but wrote that thing off real quick.
It is expensive, has a cheap interior with severely outdated electronics, and saw a video review where they put it on a lift and you could see how cheaply the underbody of the car was. White paste just thrown all over the place.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Exactly! Sales numbers for one make and model do not show a thing.
In fact sales numbers alone are almost meaningless unless we know what the business plan said they wanted to make and how many they actually did. If they planned to, and actually made, 8,000 86s and sold 6,846 that is a success. If they planned to, and actually made, 20,000 86s and sold 6,846 that is a horrible failure. Unless somebody is privy to the plan and the actual units made the sales are not a good indicator of success.


Let's play the sales numbers game for last month just for laughs though.
Looks to me that if we base the future of each model on sales numbers then the Miata should be gone soon and BMW might as well just pack in most of their models.

Thanks! Those numbers sure show a pretty even field!

86/BRZ is keeping up nicely with the Miata, which is a much newer car and has a much bigger cult following. The demand is there, people are buying these cars. If tiny Mazda can justify an all new platform every generation with these sakes numbers, so can Subaru.


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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Thanks! Those numbers sure show a pretty even field!

86/BRZ is keeping up nicely with the Miata, which is a much newer car and has a much bigger cult following. The demand is there, people are buying these cars. If tiny Mazda can justify an all new platform every generation with these sakes numbers, so can Subaru.


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You can go back through the months and see that the sales of pretty much all "sporty" cars have dropped dramatically across the board in the last two years. The FRS/BRZ have actually held their ground far better than the majority of the list. Nothing to panic over but certainly shows that you need to look at all the numbers and not just one subset.