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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 11-10-2021, 08:38 AM   #71
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Ahhh but they actually drive the trucks. Not sure how many Corvettes actually see the road more than once or twice a year.

They get out of the garage then the golf clubs come out.

The Corvette would be 500% cooler if they made the trunk too small for golf clubs.
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Old 11-10-2021, 09:48 AM   #72
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You are taking two totally different data points and mashing them together to make a new one that simply is not supported.
We are talking about distribution curves and making logical inferences.

You obviously see it differently.

Cool! Assuming we are a car manufacturer and are trying to figure out our marketing and production schedule, please tell me what conclusion would you draw from the data points presented?

We only have these two data points. No breakdown by region, wealth, education, gender, are they a legacy brand buyers, etc.

86 - Average age 52.5 and 70% automatic.
BRZ - Average age 37.5 and 70% manual.
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Old 11-10-2021, 09:49 AM   #73
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You are taking two totally different data points and mashing them together to make a new one that simply is not supported.
Firstly, its 4 points of data. Average of a BRZ owner, Average age of a 86 owner, Percentage of manual BRZ owners, percentage of manual 86 owners.

Secondly, we have a pretty healthy dataset with plenty of cars that those numbers are taken from.

Thirdly, those data points are both related to owners of sports cars that are extremely similar, so even though we have just a few statistical points to refer to about the owners, there are many other data points that strengthen the relationship - the price, the look, the performance... they are 'twins' of course. Its fairly solid apples to apples.

So yeah its enough to indicate that its more likely to be older people who drive autos, its certainly not an indication to the opposite. It would of course be necessary to have further information to make more definitive claims, like a breakdown of age in units against the selection of transmission, instead of averages, which might hide outliers in certain ages, though I'd be confident there would still be a clear weight to older drivers and automatics, as the averages/percentages are what they are for a reason.

Not sure why I bother to answer you though - perhaps I have a fondness for you tcup. I feel I can call you that since we are friends.
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Old 11-10-2021, 06:22 PM   #74
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Makes sense older goes AT. Too many other things to worry about and shit to do, you just want something easy and mindless.
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:10 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
They get out of the garage then the golf clubs come out.

The Corvette would be 500% cooler if they made the trunk too small for golf clubs.
If my BRZ didn't fit my golf clubs (admittedly have to remove the woods from the bag t make it work), it would not be my car. Golf clubs are in the trunk 95% of the time - you never know when you may need them!
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:22 AM   #76
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86 - Average age 52.5 and 70% automatic.
BRZ - Average age 37.5 and 70% manual.
To some extent though, isn't this manufacturer bias and not buyer choice? Only a very few of these are cars are ordered. Most are purchased from spec cars sent to the dealer without an order.

If Toyota chooses to manufacture more ATs than MTs, and Subaru does the opposite, then those looking for an MT are more likely to buy what is essentially the same car from Subaru because they are more likely to have an MT in stock.

There is also a percentage of people that don't care which one they get, its just one of many options. They go to Toyota thinking the want a manual, Toyota only as an AT but everything else is spot on, they take the AT.
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Old 11-11-2021, 10:56 AM   #77
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The Corvette would be 500% cooler if they made the trunk too small for golf clubs.
Never seen a truer statement, especially with the C8 it looks like a deformed car when it comes to the rear, it'd look 10x better if it eliminated that trunk space.
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:03 AM   #78
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To some extent though, isn't this manufacturer bias and not buyer choice? Only a very few of these are cars are ordered. Most are purchased from spec cars sent to the dealer without an order.

If Toyota chooses to manufacture more ATs than MTs, and Subaru does the opposite, then those looking for an MT are more likely to buy what is essentially the same car from Subaru because they are more likely to have an MT in stock.

There is also a percentage of people that don't care which one they get, its just one of many options. They go to Toyota thinking the want a manual, Toyota only as an AT but everything else is spot on, they take the AT.
Yup, that is 100% possible.

Subaru sells a lot more manuals as a %.

(2018) https://jalopnik.com/u-s-buyers-stil...-th-1834945061

"Autoblog wrote about one of those bright spots Tuesday—Subaru buyers. Subaru sent Autoblog its 2018 take rates, which were impressive: The company sold 78 percent of BRZs with a manual, and an incredible 90 percent of WRXs sold with a clutch pedal instead of the car’s optional continuously variable transmission.

But Subaru’s manual take rates plummet outside of the BRZ and WRX, Autoblog wrote, with the next highest being 8 percent on the Impreza. That’s followed by 6 percent on the Crosstrek and 3 percent on the Forester, which no longer has a stick.

Subaru reported annual U.S. sales of 680,135 last year and said 47,000 of those were sticks, putting its overall manual sales at about 7 percent in 2018. And while 7 percent would be a catastrophic failure on any exam, this is the real world—and in the real world, it’s all relative."


Most other automakers I am aware of that offer manuals in their cars might hit 1%, and those models seem to sit on lots for months or years, going unsold. Other than the Yaris, Corolla, and 86, has Toyota had a another manual transmission car in their lineup in the past decade?

Subaru seems to be a bit of an outlier. They attract more buyers who are willing to drive (or demand) a manual.

We can analyze both brands in a lot of way, who comes into dealership, and so on.

I totally agree we don't have the whole story, but given the improvements made to the automatic, I'm sure that Toyota will continue to supply more automatics.
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:12 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by mazeroni View Post
We are talking about distribution curves and making logical inferences.

You obviously see it differently.

Cool! Assuming we are a car manufacturer and are trying to figure out our marketing and production schedule, please tell me what conclusion would you draw from the data points presented?

We only have these two data points. No breakdown by region, wealth, education, gender, are they a legacy brand buyers, etc.

86 - Average age 52.5 and 70% automatic.
BRZ - Average age 37.5 and 70% manual.
Those are average ages. They do not say that 50 and over are the ones making up the majority of the AT buyers. You are assuming that since the average is higher it is the older end buying the cars. It is completely probable that the exact opposite of your assertion is what is really happening and it it the group under 50 that are the major buyers of the AT.
As you pointed out there is not enough data points to say that it is a certain group buying a certain transmission.
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:27 AM   #80
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As a completely unusable and anecdotal point of information, almost everyone I know younger than me (41) can't drive a stick. I know they are out there, but it is becoming less common in my experience.

I can literally only think of one of my younger friends who can, and he is a total enthusiast with several project cars, literbikes, just sold his heavily modified ZL1, you get the idea.

I have less than a week now to pickup my BRZ and the anticipation is killing me.
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Old 11-11-2021, 11:29 AM   #81
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Those are average ages. They do not say that 50 and over are the ones making up the majority of the AT buyers. You are assuming that since the average is higher it is the older end buying the cars. It is completely probable that the exact opposite of your assertion is what is really happening and it it the group under 50 that are the major buyers of the AT.
As you pointed out there is not enough data points to say that it is a certain group buying a certain transmission.
I agree, if anything I would think the MT buyers would tend to be older as the MT really is dyeing out, all wishful thinking it can be saved not withstanding.
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Old 11-11-2021, 12:22 PM   #82
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Never seen a truer statement, especially with the C8 it looks like a deformed car when it comes to the rear, it'd look 10x better if it eliminated that trunk space.

Yea the rear of the C8 looks atrocious compared to other mid engined cars. Didn’t help they found the tail lights in the Camaro parts boxes either.

The whole thing looks like it was styled by Factory Five. It looks like a kit car, and not in a good way.
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Old 11-11-2021, 07:57 PM   #83
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Those are average ages. They do not say that 50 and over are the ones making up the majority of the AT buyers. You are assuming that since the average is higher it is the older end buying the cars. It is completely probable that the exact opposite of your assertion is what is really happening and it it the group under 50 that are the major buyers of the AT.
As you pointed out there is not enough data points to say that it is a certain group buying a certain transmission.
I’d agree, I’m fairly young and maybe 5-10/100 people I know can even drive stick, not to mention people who would willingly choose a stick car brand new.
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Old 11-11-2021, 08:59 PM   #84
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When people at work find out my car is a manual, its far far more often the older ones who show the most interest. In some cases I found the Gen Z crowd didn't even really want a car, making auto or manual for them moot. Among the millennials only those truly into cars did, the ones who weren't don't.
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