Learning manual on the 86

[emishor86]

So after saving up and loads of patience, I picked up a clean 2013 Toyota 86 in manual, however I only have experience on autos... for the past few days I've managed to learn all the basics however I'm still struggling with hill starts.

My main question is in regards to the clutch, I really do not want to damage it, It only has 22,000 km/13,000 miles which clearly was looked after by a good owner, two days ago I accidentally burned the clutch for a good 2-3 seconds practicing uphills, it was the first time ever, and honestly I hope the last.. I'm questioning whether it was a good idea getting a clean 86 for a first manual...

Overall, I'm on day 4 now and I'm much more smoother going up gears and getting off the brakes onto the clutch and I avoid riding the clutch, I still stall occasionally at the green lights, but I still struggle "down shifting" and tend to hold the clutch down and go down the gears... a really bad habit...

So, should I be worried... or is this car's gearbox fairly durable? And from experience, how long till I become second nature and really connect with this car? I try go for 1-2 hour drives daily..

Many thanks, and glad to be apart of this awesome forum for once

[Tcoat]

The hardest part of learning to drive manual is worrying about learning to drive manual. Just relax and try not to over think every move. Eventually (in days, weeks or years) you will do a whole trip and realize that you never even realized you were shifting.


There is no issue with heating up the clutch a couple of times just don't make it a habit and all will be fine. If you had got a beat car as your first manual you would be no further ahead.

[humfrz]

Welcome, @emishor86 ....... to the forum and congratulations on your new car .......

Yep, the clutch on these cars can be a challenge to some folks, when they are new to manual transmissions.

The reason is, the engine has relatively low torque and the flywheel is relatively light.

Just keep practicing, you will get the hang of it before you know it .......


humfrz

[emishor86]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Welcome, @emishor86 ....... to the forum and congratulations on your new car .......

Yep, the clutch on these cars can be a challenge to some folks, when they are new to manual transmissions.

The reason is, the engine has relatively low torque and the flywheel is relatively light.

Just keep practicing, you will get the hang of it before you know it .......


humfrz

Thank you

Yeah, defiantly the torque deficit makes it so easy to stall

[Mad1723]

I learned on mine, and I stalled. A lot. You will be fine. Take your time, practice a lot and learn how a manual transmission works, that can help a lot in giving you clues if you're doing things wrong.

For hill starts, just give it a bit more gas than usual to get going and be careful not to ride the clutch unneccesarily. Hold the brakes until you're ready or use the handbrake to hold you still before you take off

My clutch is still holding very nicely to this day and I'm now tracking the car from time to time.

[MuseChaser]

Not much to add to the previous posts, really. Don't worry, be happy. The hint to learn about how the clutch and transmission works is a good one. You'll eventually get a feel for the "clutch engagement point".. the spot where the engine and the wheels are first introduced to each other as you release the clutch pedal. Once you can find that spot reliably by feel, the rest will all come together quickly.

When I was taught, I was told to give it gas first, get the revs up a bit, then slowly release the clutch until I felt the car start to move, add a bit more gas, and continue releasing the clutch. It works, but most folks tend to panic a bit at that point and either pop (release quickly) the clutch resulting in a stall or give it too much gas and end up peeling out and squeeling the tires (if the car has any power). When I taught my sons and my wife, I had them release the clutch slowly WITHOUT adding any gas until they heard the engine start to slow down slightly, then keep the clutch right there.. the engagement point. THEN slowly add gas and simultaneously slowly release the clutch the rest of the way. That seemed to keep the beginner "panic" factor lower.

Of course, neither is exactly the best way to do things. You don't want the clutch partially engaged or slipping for any longer than absolutely necessary; in real life, the clutch pedal and throttle pedal dance happen pretty quickly. Like all things, though, slow practice is sometimes the only way to get a rapid motion learned smoothly. Clutches don't particularly like "slow," i.e., slipping, but they REALLY don't like it under high power situations. Take your time, get the feel, and it'll come together quickly.

Once you've got it down, you'll never look back. The feeling of control you have with manual transmission... well.... with no disrespect to those who prefer the convenience and, at least in modern cars, the admitted better efficiency of recent automatic transmissions ... now you are DRIVING your car, always selecting the exact gear you want for the task at hand; prepping for accelerating through a curve, anticipating a steep uphill, upshifting sooner than usual on snowy roads so as to minimize torque. To this day I still would rather drive my manual FR-S on snowy or icy roads than my wife's Benz ML500. Her SUV is a tank.. but I still can predict and react better to what the FR-S will do when it loses traction than I can the ML500.

Just some thoughts. Opinions vary; take what you like and ignore the rest. Good on ya for taking the plunge; you'll be grinning and having fun in no time, and you'll never look back.

Best to ya,

Barry

[emishor86]

Originally Posted by Mad1723

I learned on mine, and I stalled. A lot. You will be fine. Take your time, practice a lot and learn how a manual transmission works, that can help a lot in giving you clues if you're doing things wrong.

For hill starts, just give it a bit more gas than usual to get going and be careful not to ride the clutch unneccesarily. Hold the brakes until you're ready or use the handbrake to hold you still before you take off

My clutch is still holding very nicely to this day and I'm now tracking the car from time to time.

Sounds great, does the car feel amazing now being comfortable with the clutch?

[emishor86]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

When I was taught, I was told to give it gas first, get the revs up a bit, then slowly release the clutch until I felt the car start to move, add a bit more gas, and continue releasing the clutch. It works, but most folks tend to panic a bit at that point and either pop (release quickly) the clutch resulting in a stall or give it too much gas and end up peeling out and squeeling the tires (if the car has any power). When I taught my sons and my wife, I had them release the clutch slowly WITHOUT adding any gas until they heard the engine start to slow down slightly, then keep the clutch right there.. the engagement point. THEN slowly add gas and simultaneously slowly release the clutch the rest of the way. That seemed to keep the beginner "panic" factor lower.

Yes! This is extremely relatable and I was squealing tires at the start until I gave gas second

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by emishor86

Yes! This is extremely relatable and I was squealing tires at the start until I gave gas second

I have been driving manuals for 45 years and still accidently squawk the tires time to time. I also sometimes miss a shift and once a year or so screw up a clutch release and stall. I don't do these things often but it happens. Anybody that tries to tell you they do not mess up once in a while is either a liar or have a very short or selective memory. Just don't get bent out of shape when it happens and you will be a pro in no time. There is no huge mystery or special skill required just practice.

[emishor86]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have been driving manuals for 45 years and still accidently squawk the tires time to time. I also sometimes miss a shift and once a year or so screw up a clutch release and stall. I don't do these things often but it happens. Anybody that tries to tell you they do not mess up once in a while is either a liar or have a very short or selective memory. Just don't get bent out of shape when it happens and you will be a pro in no time. There is no huge mystery or special skill required just practice.

At the moment I just need to master down shifting smoothly, but I guess practice makes perfect

However, the 86/FR-s feels like absolute sex around declined or inclined corners & apexes, I'm in love with this car and I'll spend mornings drinking tea and just looking the aesthetics haha

I may be a bit crazy, but I guess thats why we are "petrol heads"

[extrashaky]

The clutch is a wear part. It's meant to be burned up and replaced, like brake pads.

You're going to put more wear on the clutch when you're first learning. If you worry about it, that's just going to make you overthink it, and you'll burn it even worse. So just accept that you're going to put a little extra wear on it while you're learning and don't worry about it. You're not doing any lasting damage to the car that can't be remedied with a new clutch.

And clutches on modern cars are made to go tens, in some cases hundreds of thousands of miles before replacement. If you take a few thousand miles off its life while learning, it's not going to matter all that much in the big scheme of things. If you have to replace the clutch at 140K miles instead of 150K, will you even know the life was reduced?

Relax.

[mdm]

Seriously, people are complaining about insufficient torque for LEARNING TO OPERATE MT?

I learned driving MTs in cars that had less than 50 HP and probably corresponding torque. Even though they were for sure much lighter than modern cars, the weight to power (or torque) figures were enormous, and still one could start without stalling.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mdm

Seriously, people are complaining about insufficient torque for LEARNING TO OPERATE MT?

I learned driving MTs in cars that had less than 50 HP and probably corresponding torque. Even though they were for sure much lighter than modern cars, the weight to power (or torque) figures were enormous, and still one could start without stalling.

Yep!
1964 Karmann Ghia.
Only 4 speeds.
40HP and 60 torque.
0 to 60 in about an afternoon.
Top speed 70MPH.
Fun as hell!

[emishor86]

Whats people's opinion on learning downshifting/rev matching on FRS/86? Is it fairly difficult? The throttle seems sensitive but the gearbox is smooth