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Old 09-10-2021, 12:47 PM   #771
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anti-mandate but already vaxxed is a tiny sliver of the population who like to grandstand about "muh rights"
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:52 PM   #772
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Originally Posted by MuseChaser View Post
Agreed with all, except with a clarification/stipulation on the last sentence. The jump from labeling those who are anti-mandate to being anti-vaccine is made far too easily and far too frequently. There are people who are illogically opposed to the vaccine itself, granted, but, and again I'm speaking from my personal experience and not for every pocket of humanity across the fruited plain, the most vocal in my experience have been anti-mandate, including myself, and not anti-vaccine. Many of those opposing the mandates, and again speaking from my experience, are vaccinated.
Mandates (and laws) only happen when individual's choices are having a significant negative impact on society. Nobody is actually pro-mandate, it's just that the other option, educating people on the needs and benefits of getting vaccinated, seems to have failed to generate the necessary effect for a large portion of the population (those who are anti-vaccine). Mandates are just a fallback when society can't seem to find another option.
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:58 PM   #773
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I'm glad I stay out of this thread more often these days. It seems like the conversation has gone so full circle that I can confidently re-iterate that being allowed to drive drunk should be a thing!! Why are we not allowed to smoke a blunt at the intersection? We're waiting for the light to turn green anyway?? I hate not being allowed to do that legally. I mean, I've done it before and nobody got hurt anyway! The risk is so low! And if people are so scared, they shouldn't be on the road or sidewalks anyway! That's their problem! They should just never leave their house!!


.
.
.
.
.
.

/s obviously
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:03 PM   #774
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I'm glad I stay out of this thread more often these days. It seems like the conversation has gone so full circle that I can confidently re-iterate that being allowed to drive drunk should be a thing!! Why are we not allowed to smoke a blunt at the intersection? We're waiting for the light to turn green anyway?? I hate not being allowed to do that legally. I mean, I've done it before and nobody got hurt anyway! The risk is so low! And if people are so scared, they shouldn't be on the road or sidewalks anyway! That's their problem! They should just never leave their house!!


.
.
.
.
.
.

/s obviously
Fuck yeeah! It's mY rIgHt to drive drunk, get stoned, beat the shit out of my gf, and tell my brother he's a ***** as bitch for being a pilot.

Obviously it's a joke for the literal type.
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:13 PM   #775
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Anger is never helpful...
I agree with that as it applies to the virus debate, but lately and long overdue we're seeing people rising up and demanding a return to reason, especially at the local level. For too long, appeasement to the vocal, tyrannical minority hasn't worked (see Portland and other cities).

One example is, thanks to online public K-12 education, parents are looking over the shoulder of their kids monitors and seeing for the first time the mandated propaganda being taught and want none of it. Their directed anger at school board meetings is getting results.

Apply that directed anger to other assaults imposed on civil society this year and just maybe those who call themselves civil servants will start listening to those paying their keep.

I'm not suggesting violence of an kind, there are more effective legal ways still available to create change.
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:29 PM   #776
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Two things to say responding to some of the latest:
1. There are SO many important results from being vaccinated. Like relieving pressure on the health care system. Stop pretending the only useful outcome is complete protection....
Where did anyone do that? I sure didn't.... as a matter of fact, I was pretty clear that THE most important benefit of the vaccine was relieving pressure on the health care system...

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..
3. Vaccinated people are far less likely to require hospitalization in the event of a breakthrough infection, and that is indeed an excellent reason to get the vaccine especially if one has other risk factors, both for one's own safety and to keep hospital beds open for others. ....
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... the vaccine's highest success is in preventing serious infections that result in death or hospitalization. It's success in preventing mild breakthrough infections or carrying the virus to others is less, but still of course very significant and helpful.

You also wrote...

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2. If you are not anti-vaccine but are anti-mandate, stop the whining and step up with effective alternatives to get us to a place people arent sentenced to death because the ER was full and they had an unrelated issue needing immediate care. Non-mandate alternatives certainly been tried, with (usually predictable) failure as the main outcome.
If you mean get us to a place that no single person ever dies because an ER was full or because care wasn't available fast enough, the sad reality is that we will never be there, Covid or no Covid. If you mean that a huge spike in people being sentenced to death is being caused by the virus overwhelming hospital beds and physical facilities, and that we need to reduce that number, there's a couple things we can look at.

How many times has that truly happened? There are other contributors to this thread, actively working in health care, that can answer that and I'd welcome first hand knowledge. From what I've read, most of the time the issue has not been facilities, but rather extremely short staffing. Motivating badly needed staff to retire or resign due to mandates is the opposite of helpful in that situation. In my area, especially when we were under stricter lockdowns, our hospitals weren't overloaded... they were almost empty, and on the verge of bankruptcy. If the issue is short staffing, and it seems to be, then THAT is one thing we should address while we continue to look at ways to keep people out of hospitals.
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:36 PM   #777
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Originally Posted by Atmo View Post
I agree with that as it applies to the virus debate, but lately and long overdue we're seeing people rising up and demanding a return to reason, especially at the local level. For too long, appeasement to the vocal, tyrannical minority hasn't worked (see Portland and other cities).

One example is, thanks to online public K-12 education, parents are looking over the shoulder of their kids monitors and seeing for the first time the mandated propaganda being taught and want none of it. Their directed anger at school board meetings is getting results.

Apply that directed anger to other assaults imposed on civil society this year and just maybe those who call themselves civil servants will start listening to those paying their keep.

I'm not suggesting violence of an kind, there are more effective legal ways still available to create change.
lmao, just lol if you think the opposition to CRT came out of people looking over their kid's shoulder during online classes and not a concerted effort by right wing media to outrage and stoke a moral panic in their viewers

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0race%20theory
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Old 09-10-2021, 01:46 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuseChaser View Post
Where did anyone do that? I sure didn't.... as a matter of fact, I was pretty clear that THE most important benefit of the vaccine was relieving pressure on the health care system...






You also wrote...



If you mean get us to a place that no single person ever dies because an ER was full or because care wasn't available fast enough, the sad reality is that we will never be there, Covid or no Covid. If you mean that a huge spike in people being sentenced to death is being caused by the virus overwhelming hospital beds and physical facilities, and that we need to reduce that number, there's a couple things we can look at.

How many times has that truly happened? There are other contributors to this thread, actively working in health care, that can answer that and I'd welcome first hand knowledge. From what I've read, most of the time the issue has not been facilities, but rather extremely short staffing. Motivating badly needed staff to retire or resign due to mandates is the opposite of helpful in that situation. In my area, especially when we were under stricter lockdowns, our hospitals weren't overloaded... they were almost empty, and on the verge of bankruptcy. If the issue is short staffing, and it seems to be, then THAT is one thing we should address while we continue to look at ways to keep people out of hospitals.
On the first - I didn't name names for a reason. I'd agree it doesn't apply to you based on your self-quotes, and I have no reason to try to find evidence to the contrary. It really was part of a general reply after reading a bunch of pages.

On the second: I don't have an answer. It is happening. It is preventable. And it is stressing the system, which is showing signs of cracking: if that cracking gets worse it amplifies the problem. So.
Ideas, potential solutions. What are some we haven't tried? How do we get past the things we don't like, whatever they are? They won't go away while we have major public health issues to contend with. I don't really care if some people don't like mandates. I understand, in fact, as I'm not a fan either. But I understand the need, and the data I've seen suggests they can work.
edit: solutions to the public health crisis at hand, for which our current best answer remains, at this time, vaccines (and masks and distancing and ...)
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Old 09-10-2021, 02:09 PM   #779
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lmao, just lol if you think the opposition to CRT came out of people looking over their kid's shoulder during online classes and not a concerted effort by right wing media to outrage and stoke a moral panic in their viewers

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0race%20theory
I didn't say CRT, that's been debated in another thread if you care to search and post there.

I don't get how your link supports your opinion.

Here's a link to a map showing over half the States with legislation introduced or passed addressing racism in the classroom. Many are blue states. The article is essentially an op-ed, calling legislation "attacks", but the map and table are interesting even though Puerto Rico and DC are labeled States.

https://www.edweek.org/policy-politi...attack/2021/06
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Old 09-10-2021, 02:47 PM   #780
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Originally Posted by Atmo View Post
I agree with that as it applies to the virus debate, but lately and long overdue we're seeing people rising up and demanding a return to reason, especially at the local level. For too long, appeasement to the vocal, tyrannical minority hasn't worked (see Portland and other cities).

One example is, thanks to online public K-12 education, parents are looking over the shoulder of their kids monitors and seeing for the first time the mandated propaganda being taught and want none of it. Their directed anger at school board meetings is getting results.

Apply that directed anger to other assaults imposed on civil society this year and just maybe those who call themselves civil servants will start listening to those paying their keep.

I'm not suggesting violence of an kind, there are more effective legal ways still available to create change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires View Post
lmao, just lol if you think the opposition to CRT came out of people looking over their kid's shoulder during online classes and not a concerted effort by right wing media to outrage and stoke a moral panic in their viewers

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...0race%20theory
None of which has anything to do with COVID-19. Stay on topic. Though I'm sure these three posts will get deleted at some point in the near future.
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:26 PM   #781
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None of which has anything to do with COVID-19. Stay on topic. Though I'm sure these three posts will get deleted at some point in the near future.
My first post was about anger management in response to MuseChaser's post that's still intact.

My post was benign compared to other posts in this thread wishing the vaccine hesitant grave illness or worse.

Then someone jumped in with a misguided opinion that deserved a reply.

I suppose those posts could be deleted if you reported them but that's OK, I'm not angry.
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Old 09-10-2021, 03:35 PM   #782
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My first post was about anger management in response to MuseChaser's post that's still intact.

My post was benign compared to other posts in this thread wishing the vaccine hesitant grave illness or worse.

Then someone jumped in with a misguided opinion that deserved a reply.

I suppose those posts could be deleted if you reported them but that's OK, I'm not angry.
You started going off topic yourself, going on a political rant only vaguely adjacent to what MC said. Two wrongs don't make a right.

If I reported your post, I would tell you about it. I only report spam.
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Old 09-10-2021, 04:28 PM   #783
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After a government sponsored 90-day review of COVID origins produced exactly nothing, the private sector provided some new direction.

This was possibly posted earlier in the thread but don't recall a mention of over 900 pages of NIH documents released this week including Dr. Fauci related emails that are contrary to his sworn testimony to Congress.

The docs show that Fauci's NIH funneled millions through intermediaries to in part fund gain of function research in COVID and MERS at the Wuhan Institute.

It took two FOIA requests and a lawsuit to produce the documents. The evidence has triggered a request from Sen. Paul for a DOJ investigation into alleged felonies committed by Fauci. Good luck with that.

No US networks except Fox have mentioned this revelation.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/...t-chinese-lab/

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/...tion-research/

https://theintercept.com/document/20...tes-of-health/
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Old 09-10-2021, 04:41 PM   #784
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After a government sponsored 90-day review of COVID origins produced exactly nothing, the private sector provided some new direction.

This was possibly posted earlier in the thread but don't recall a mention of over 900 pages of NIH documents released this week including Dr. Fauci related emails that are contrary to his sworn testimony to Congress.

The docs show that Fauci's NIH funneled millions through intermediaries to in part fund gain of function research in COVID and MERS at the Wuhan Institute.

It took two FOIA requests and a lawsuit to produce the documents. The evidence has triggered a request from Sen. Paul for a DOJ investigation into alleged felonies committed by Fauci. Good luck with that.

No US networks except Fox have mentioned this revelation.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/...t-chinese-lab/

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/...tion-research/

https://theintercept.com/document/20...tes-of-health/
Ah yes only Fox is the true news network and of course Rand Paul is requesting an investigation. All of that nonsense will amount to nothing. So why waste posting it?
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