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Old 07-28-2021, 10:27 AM   #1107
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Got in bed last night and must've woke Haru up because after a while he kept moving around to find a new position to sleep in. He settled for this:

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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:29 PM   #1108
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Silly boy. We get them $50 beds and they do that. He looks like a viscous, caged cougar cub. Good looking bite, though. I can almost smell his puppy breath.
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Old 07-28-2021, 01:37 PM   #1109
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We're at the vet now for his second to last round of puppy shots. Due to covid they still wouldn't let me in. Then I got a call 45 mins later from the doctor. Doctor says shibas shouldn't be screaming at the vet or getting bitey during exams. He reacted when the doctor was examining his neck and shoulders. They decided to put a muzzle on Haru.

I finally convinced the doctor to let me come in with some treats even though they're finished so I can try to work on making it a more positive experience.

But basically the doctor still says that's aggression and needs to be trained out by a trainer.

I'm just not 100% that he's right. I told him Haru sometimes screams at home if I put him in the xpen or crate when he's not in he mood. I said shibas scream, it's one of their things. He insisted I shouldn't be focused on the situations and more on the fact that Haru is picking up bad behavior.
@Atmo any advice? I still feel like for a 13 week old puppy, much less a Shiba, this is relatively normal for a vet visit when they haven't even tried getting him used to them. Even human babies scream when they get shots and stuff.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 07-28-2021, 02:37 PM   #1110
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We're at the vet now for his second to last round of puppy shots. Due to covid they still wouldn't let me in. Then I got a call 45 mins later from the doctor. Doctor says shibas shouldn't be screaming at the vet or getting bitey during exams. He reacted when the doctor was examining his neck and shoulders. They decided to put a muzzle on Haru.

I finally convinced the doctor to let me come in with some treats even though they're finished so I can try to work on making it a more positive experience.

But basically the doctor still says that's aggression and needs to be trained out by a trainer.

I'm just not 100% that he's right. I told him Haru sometimes screams at home if I put him in the xpen or crate when he's not in he mood. I said shibas scream, it's one of their things. He insisted I shouldn't be focused on the situations and more on the fact that Haru is picking up bad behavior.
@Atmo any advice? I still feel like for a 13 week old puppy, much less a Shiba, this is relatively normal for a vet visit when they haven't even tried getting him used to them. Even human babies scream when they get shots and stuff.
Update.

Second "exam" - basically testing the doctor checking Haru in an exam room with me close but not close enough that he was clinging to me - went very well. No screaming or anything. Haru was shaking at the beginning but relaxed a bit and took treats from the doctor too.

Afterward, the doctor remarked to his techs at how well Haru did and what a 180 personality change because I was there.

So I asked, "I've seen on the internet that when dogs are uncomfortable at the vet it's helpful to bring them in occasionally even just to visit for a few minutes for some pets and treats from the doc/techs so that he will get used to them."

Doc's response: "Ooooh yeah feel free to bring him in any time, just let us know and I know we'll love giving him some pets!"

And then as we were walking out so I could be checked out, he told the techs that Haru was amazing and nothing like earlier again and told them to make sure it's in the notes that I come in with Haru next time.

You'd think a doctor would be used to knowing when a dog, especially a puppy, is just not comfortable with a stranger touching them and stuff, and have ideas of what to try to abate that and try to make them feel more OK with being there.

Apparently not this doctor, smh.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:03 PM   #1111
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Update.

Second "exam" - basically testing the doctor checking Haru in an exam room with me close but not close enough that he was clinging to me - went very well. No screaming or anything. Haru was shaking at the beginning but relaxed a bit and took treats from the doctor too.

Afterward, the doctor remarked to his techs at how well Haru did and what a 180 personality change because I was there.

So I asked, "I've seen on the internet that when dogs are uncomfortable at the vet it's helpful to bring them in occasionally even just to visit for a few minutes for some pets and treats from the doc/techs so that he will get used to them."

Doc's response: "Ooooh yeah feel free to bring him in any time, just let us know and I know we'll love giving him some pets!"

And then as we were walking out so I could be checked out, he told the techs that Haru was amazing and nothing like earlier again and told them to make sure it's in the notes that I come in with Haru next time.

You'd think a doctor would be used to knowing when a dog, especially a puppy, is just not comfortable with a stranger touching them and stuff, and have ideas of what to try to abate that and try to make them feel more OK with being there.

Apparently not this doctor, smh.
Education Level != Common Sense Level

I'm sure he knows about the physiology of puppies, which is different from the psychology of puppies.
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:13 PM   #1112
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Education Level != Common Sense Level

I'm sure he knows about the physiology of puppies, which is different from the psychology of puppies.
I mean, that's right, but he's also been a professional working doctor for like 15 years now, which means likely hundreds of pets have been his patients.

If he were maybe relatively fresh out of education (<= 5 years) I'd totally understand that.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:19 PM   #1113
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Good for you for educating your vet! Your instincts are spot on.

Haru has bonded with you, his pack leader, and doesn't like being in a stressful situation without you. His bad behaviors are typical for the smarter breeds of any age from what I've seen at the Humane Society. I don't consider Shiba screams bad behavior, it's what they do. Startling and annoying at times, but it's Shiba World.

Coincidentally, earlier this month my 10 year old Mika, another Spitz group breed like Shibas, suddenly got sick one morning, stopped eating and drinking, a very bad sign, so I rushed him to the vet. Mika has been there many times over the years and always thinks it's a fun place where he gets to visit other dogs*. Except the last time I wasn't allowed in due to COVID rules. It took ten minutes for the vet to call me in the car, saying "maybe it would be better if you were in here with him, he's 'carrying on'". The vet tech said he was barking his head off so they tried putting him in isolation but that didn't work. He calmed down instantly when I appeared. I've been with him on four more visits this month (bloodwork, x-ray, ultrasound, more bloodwork) and he's been fine.

I'd suggest taking him for random daily joy rides in your car now if possible so he doesn't start fearing rides thinking he's on his way to the vet.

You're a good Dad and Haru is a lucky boy.

*I never let lover boy Mika get too close to other dogs in the vet waiting area for health and temperament reasons. He can admire them from a distance.
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:19 PM   #1114
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I mean, that's right, but he's also been a professional working doctor for like 15 years now, which means likely hundreds of pets have been his patients.

If he were maybe relatively fresh out of education (<= 5 years) I'd totally understand that.
Does he understand it has not even been a month since you brought Haru 1/3 of the way across the country to live with his new hooman

Some dogs just don't do as well at the vet. Our lab loved the vet, he would play and greet everyone. Our mutt we had at the same time, and would take during the same appointment would cower so tightly too the ground you could hardly get your fingers under her to pick her up.
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:34 PM   #1115
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Good for you for educating your vet! Your instincts are spot on.

Haru has bonded with you, his pack leader, and doesn't like being in a stressful situation without you. His bad behaviors are typical for the smarter breeds of any age from what I've seen at the Humane Society. I don't consider Shiba screams bad behavior, it's what they do.

Coincidentally, earlier this month my 10 year old Mika, another Spitz group breed like Shibas, suddenly got sick one morning, stopped eating and drinking, a very bad sign, so I rushed him to the vet. Mika has been there many times over the years and always thinks it's a fun place where he gets to visit other dogs*. Except the last time I wasn't allowed in due to COVID rules. It took ten minutes for the vet to call me in the car, saying "maybe it would be better if you were in here with him, he's 'carrying on'". The vet tech said he was barking his head off so they tried putting him in isolation but that didn't work. He calmed down instantly when I appeared. I've been with him on four more visits this month (bloodwork, x-ray, ultrasound, more bloodwork) and he's been fine.

I'd suggest taking him for random daily joy rides in your car now if possible so he doesn't start fearing rides thinking he's on his way to the vet.

You're a good Dad and Haru is a lucky boy.

*I never let lover boy Mika get too close to other dogs in the vet waiting area for health and temperament reasons. He can admire them from a distance.
Yeah, I was telling the doctor on the phone originally this morning that the screaming is just a vocalization thing and Haru mostly doesn't bark at home (except during zoomies or whatever) but he insisted the other handful of shiba patients he has never make noise whatsoever, lol.

I try to take Haru out to get coffee or boba occasionally but may also do what you recommended and just drive around a bit. I'm also still trying to get him used to the booster box seat thing I got him to be in while he's a puppy (which he absolutely hates). He either tries to climb to the backseats or lies halfway out of the box onto my arm (he's on a short tether thing so he can't really go further than that):



Today when I finally got him clicked in ^. He knows I shift with that arm! lol.

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Does he understand it has not even been a month since you brought Haru 1/3 of the way across the country to live with his new hooman

Some dogs just don't do as well at the vet. Our lab loved the vet, he would play and greet everyone. Our mutt we had at the same time, and would take during the same appointment would cower so tightly too the ground you could hardly get your fingers under her to pick her up.
Teeny bit more than a month now We passed one month last Friday. But yeah, I think it's totally just that. I've carried him around a lot around my neighborhood and he's met some kids and older people. He has yet to bark or growl or scream at them (granted I keep holding him then but still). He usually accepts pats and will sniff them.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 07-28-2021, 04:07 PM   #1116
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I try to take Haru out to get coffee or boba occasionally but may also do what you recommended and just drive around a bit.
If nothing else, you'll get great gas mileage driving like there's a baby on board. Oh wait, there is.

Mika is calmer up front in the passenger seat looking out the windshield. In the rear, he looks out the side window and I think the motion blur upsets him.

I got one of these for him. It has grippy fabric for good paw traction and fur collection plus a skirt and storage. It stays put with three straps and an anchor, most only have one strap. Maybe he'd like it better than the box.

https://www.amazon.com/URPOWER-Water...p_ob_title_pet

Last edited by Atmo; 07-28-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 07-28-2021, 10:08 PM   #1117
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We're at the vet now for his second to last round of puppy shots. Due to covid they still wouldn't let me in. Then I got a call 45 mins later from the doctor. Doctor says shibas shouldn't be screaming at the vet or getting bitey during exams. He reacted when the doctor was examining his neck and shoulders. They decided to put a muzzle on Haru....
yea, i don't agree with the doc at all.

newish puppy, a 'stranger' is taking him away from his family in a strange unfamiliar environment, and then doing things to the puppy that result in some amount of pain.

i'd be howling/screaming under those circumstances...
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Old 07-29-2021, 12:21 AM   #1118
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One of my frog species finally figured out their life history milestones. This is my female, Titus and a recently morphed Baby Titus.
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Old 07-29-2021, 02:49 AM   #1119
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If nothing else, you'll get great gas mileage driving like there's a baby on board. Oh wait, there is.

Mika is calmer up front in the passenger seat looking out the windshield. In the rear, he looks out the side window and I think the motion blur upsets him.

I got one of these for him. It has grippy fabric for good paw traction and fur collection plus a skirt and storage. It stays put with three straps and an anchor, most only have one strap. Maybe he'd like it better than the box.

https://www.amazon.com/URPOWER-Water...p_ob_title_pet
Thanks for the rec! The one I have is a little adjustable, so I'm going to try raising the height on it a bit so that Haru can actually look out the windshield. If that doesn't work, I'll definitely give this a shot.

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yea, i don't agree with the doc at all.

newish puppy, a 'stranger' is taking him away from his family in a strange unfamiliar environment, and then doing things to the puppy that result in some amount of pain.

i'd be howling/screaming under those circumstances...
The thing that still ticks me off is that everything he complained about is what a human baby would do (other than biting I guess lol).

Would you muzzle a human baby for screaming while getting a shot??? Or say the behavior it's demonstrating is going to make it a bad person forever?

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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 07-29-2021, 05:24 AM   #1120
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